Your feet and where they belong

Killpill · 05-13-2011, 10:16 PM

I thought this may make a good topic considering how often I end up planting my foot down while moving when I feel the bike begin to start tipping.

A bad habit of mine is hovering both of my feet above the ground when I start and go. I'm working on fixing it. At slow speeds it helps a lot in balancing for me, but it causes some bad issues if I'm planning on stopping and suddenly need to start moving. Snapping my legs back breaks the balance and the result is my planting a foot once or twice as I'm accelerating.

Someone mentioned motorcycle cops are trained to have their feet on the bike at all times while in motion. This skill seems vital in the city because of the sudden changes in traffic speed. I've gotten pretty good at doing this while stopping, although sometimes I may wobble pretty badly and the car behind me stays back like they're thinking "OMG HE CAN'T RIDE A BIKE". Good method to get tailgaters off you, I guess.

So, I figure, lets make a topic to discuss the ins and outs of your feet and where they belong while riding.

CaptCrashIdaho · 05-13-2011, 11:03 PM

3:15 Here:

+ YouTube Video

Killpill · 05-13-2011, 11:10 PM

You'll probably have a video segment for every discussion I make but I'm glad it is cataloged in the forums so people can find it easier. xD

During u-turns, if I feel like stamping my foot down - what should I do?

I know throttling can increase your stability during a turn but don't know if that is the best idea.

Sidewalk · 05-13-2011, 11:15 PM

Keep the balls of your feet (toe area) on the pegs at all times except for when shifting or braking. Use one foot on the ground when at a stop, and only at a stop. As soon as you roll away put your foot on the peg.

Have you taken the MSF course?

Learn to use the controls; throttle, clutch, and brakes. They will help you keep from falling over. If at any time you feel the bike tipping, just let it go. To keep the story short, I had to do that once on my old 1000RR. Bike was still relatively new, but I got caught in a bad situation and I felt it go. I literally just stepped off the bike as it tipped as if I was putting my bicycle on the ground. It hurt to see the bike just laying there, but I was completely unharmed.

Killpill · 05-13-2011, 11:23 PM

I have taken the MSF course and am here to learn as much as I can while I wait for the phone call inviting me to do the advanced course (maybe I should just call them and see what is up with that).

I am the type of person who sucks up information and constantly changes viewpoints based on what I'm learn and experience. Sometimes I may ask a question I already think I know the answer to just to see what the answer of a more experienced person is.

I did not know about keeping your toes on the pegs, I usually have my toes to the left of the gear shift and to the right of the brake. Same concept?

CaptCrashIdaho · 05-13-2011, 11:26 PM

On a KLR try keeping the balls of your feet on the pegs unless you're using the controls. If the bike feels like it's falling in? Release more clutch and give it some power--see if that helps.

Killpill · 05-13-2011, 11:30 PM

Could you explain the reasoning behind keeping the balls of my feet on the pegs? Is it the same concept as not covering the front brake?

As for the bike falling, I shall try.

I'd love to go out now but it is 11:30PM. Night rides are fun but training in the dark may be a little weird.

CaptCrashIdaho · 05-14-2011, 12:12 AM

When you dance, do you do it flat footed or on the balls of your feet?

Killpill · 05-14-2011, 12:25 AM

I actually do not dance, so I couldn't tell you. I'm kinda a shy inverted guy who has stayed on the computer most of his life and I'll leave it at that.

But I do understand your point, to an extent. I'll try it out and see what happens.

CaptCrashIdaho · 05-14-2011, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killpill

I actually do not dance...

Everybody dances; often we just don't know it.

Killpill · 05-14-2011, 01:05 AM

I'll admit to that. I use the balls of my feet in a lot of the things I do. Not that I'm prancing about, I just make things go quicker by adding a flow than if I just went left-foot-right-foot-left-foot-right.

I guess I have no more questions until after my riding tomorrow. I'll try and get my camera and tripod set up.

rexmitchell · 05-14-2011, 01:16 AM

Staying on the balls of your feet helps to keep balance. I can always spot a newer rider by how long it takes them to get their feet off the pavement and onto the pegs. Truth is, after you are going about 5 mph, you have plenty of balance to keep the bike upright, its strictly fear from that point on. Once you learn good throttle control and have confidence as soon as you start moving you will get your foot off the ground. I usually only use one foot when I am stopped. My right foot is on the ground. As soon as I am in gear, the moment I start moving the foot comes up, once both feet are on the pegs you have better balance and control. Crash can explain this better than I can but if you go at a low speed and focus on your balance on the bike, sometimes even standing up on the pegs, you will get a feel for how you can easily balance the bike with your feet on as compared to off the pegs.

Killpill · 05-14-2011, 01:45 AM

You explained well, thank you.

gershon · 05-14-2011, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killpill

You'll probably have a video segment for every discussion I make but I'm glad it is cataloged in the forums so people can find it easier. xD

During u-turns, if I feel like stamping my foot down - what should I do?

I know throttling can increase your stability during a turn but don't know if that is the best idea.

In my opinion, this is an important safety issue for parking lot practice. My technique is anytime a maneuver in the parking lot does not look significantly like the one planned, I abort. Simultaneously straighten the front wheel, smoothly release the clutch and brake and add a little throttle. If done early, a foot fault won't happen.

Before trying a U turn in traffic, a rider should be proficient enough in the parking lot so foot faults don't happen.

The Ride Like a Pro V video is the best source of information for slow riding. It really helps to have a video to watch to supplement explanations.

Jerry gives classes in Hudson, FL which is about 140 miles from you. It's really worth the money and if I were that close, I'd buy the video, work through the exercises and then go take the class.

I can't dance either. I have no rhythm and have two kids to prove it.

trixter · 05-14-2011, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sidewalk

Keep the balls of your feet (toe area) on the pegs at all times except for when shifting or braking. Use one foot on the ground when at a stop, and only at a stop.

Have you taken the MSF course?

To start with I have not yet taken the course. I plan on doing that at the end of the month once I get all the control issues sorted on my bike so they will accept it (I cant use one of theirs due to having one hand and having to mod controls, the final part - a banjo bolt so I can move the front brake - should arrive today or Monday).

With that said I caught myself in a situation where putting my foot down while in motion was the better option. I was making almost a u-turn, not quite a 180 more of a 135. As I came back I had to avoid the fence posts that marked the entrance to this drive, which immediately went uphill and on gravel. I started to lean and my reflexive action was to plant my right leg (I was leaning towards that side) and accelerate a bit. This caused me to straighten out and not dump the bike, with me still on it.

With that said I had less than a week of riding at that point and certainly more practice would probably have avoided that situation, however that did violate the rule of feet on the pegs always while in motion but it prevented me from going down so I think it was the right choice given the totality of the situation.

As for balls of my feet on the pegs, I have an enduro and I find that the bend of my legs is less comfortable in that position and I tend to have them more forward where the instep is on the peg. My pegs have teeth which bite into the waffle of my boot fairly well which would also mean any time I do have to use the brake or shift I would have to raise my foot off the peg to move it, I cannot simply slide my foot into position. What is the reasoning behind having the balls of your feet on the pegs? I would think that lifting your leg could alter balance however slightly and if you are in a bad situation it could make it worse, but then again that is my inexperienced opinion.

markk53 · 05-14-2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killpill

You'll probably have a video segment for every discussion I make but I'm glad it is cataloged in the forums so people can find it easier. xD

During u-turns, if I feel like stamping my foot down - what should I do?

I know throttling can increase your stability during a turn but don't know if that is the best idea.

You are right in that putting a foot down for a firm plant is impossible with a bike moving at all. Clearly as you plant your foot the bike moves forward and you'll either have to replant your foot or fall over. Using them like outriggers works a bit, but you lose your control afforded by balancing with whatever weight you can get on the pegs, but worse yet you lose what control can be afforded with light use of the rear brake. Cruisers like yours are a bit clunky when dong slow turns and the engine makes it rougher at low rpm.

I remember the revised Shadow 1100s when Honda introduced them in 1987, the 4 speeds were really rough at idle with a tall first gear. The original in 85 was smoother with the 5 speed. The Shadow 4 speed could develop a bucking motion at idle or low rpm in first gear pretty easily. Not good for slow maneuvering.

Here's a tip to learn. Lightly drag the rear brake as you turn or even in extremely slow continuous forward motion of any sort. It loads the driveline taking out the jerkiness of low rpm movement. It's like power braking a car. I've had numerous riders, including my father about two decades ago, try this out and have yet to have anyone say it doesn't work to smooth out the power delivery. Taking out that lurching motion is half the battle and is a part easily taken care of.

Again foot on brake lightly dragging while operating the throttle to smooth out the lurching action of the engine firing and the driveline "slop" (lash caused by clearances).

Edit:
What I described above is the perfect way to smooth that driveway maneuver you just described.

The balls of your feet on the pegs works fine when riding many street and off road bikes and the shifting/braking foot movement becomes no issue, but rather an automatic thing. With an off roader the standing and maneuvering becomes easier with the balls of your feet on the pegs, can't quite explain it, but it is. Watch racers and any sort of good off roaders, they spend a lot of time with feet positioned as such, going to arches when shifting or in some cornering like hitting a berm or such. It's not all the time though.

A cruiser is much more difficult to ride with balls of feet on pegs with their forward controls. Just not too functional. People who have not spent much time on any cruiser with a bit of forward mounted controls may not realize this. They know what works on the sport/naked/dual sport/off road bikes. Cruisers are not really all that conducive to manuevering by design. Slow handling and a bit cumbersome when compared to the others as I am sure you have found in comparison to your dual sport.

CaptCrashIdaho · 05-14-2011, 10:28 AM

Yup. Dragging the rear helps in low speed situations...keeps you off the front as well.

Badlands-4-2 · 05-14-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCrashIdaho

Everybody dances; often we just don't know it.

Actually people tell me that when I think that I am dancing, I am the only one that doesn't know I am not dancing.

Sidewalk · 05-14-2011, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixter

With that said I caught myself in a situation where putting my foot down while in motion was the better option.

It wasn't a better option, it was just the option you took because you do not have the skill set yet to handle the situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixter

With that said I had less than a week of riding at that point and certainly more practice would probably have avoided that situation, however that did violate the rule of feet on the pegs always while in motion but it prevented me from going down so I think it was the right choice given the totality of the situation.

You can very easily catch your foot on the ground and twist your knee if done wrong. It is a risk you are taking to your body to protect your bike. Are you going to risk physical harm to yourself to protect your bike? Brake levers are cheaper then surgery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trixter

As for balls of my feet on the pegs, I have an enduro and I find that the bend of my legs is less comfortable in that position and I tend to have them more forward where the instep is on the peg. My pegs have teeth which bite into the waffle of my boot fairly well which would also mean any time I do have to use the brake or shift I would have to raise my foot off the peg to move it, I cannot simply slide my foot into position. What is the reasoning behind having the balls of your feet on the pegs? I would think that lifting your leg could alter balance however slightly and if you are in a bad situation it could make it worse, but then again that is my inexperienced opinion.

I don't have time for a full explanation right now, but you do have to lift your feet. I have to do it non stop on the track. I have to move my feet into position to up/down shift, and then back onto the balls of my feet again for the corner, and right back again. It is a never ending movement. It is something that has to be learned.

Killpill · 05-14-2011, 09:37 PM

Went out today to practice slow speed maneuvers.

I just used the parking spaces to act as lanes and tried to cut down the number of them between where I started the u-turn and where I ended it. I ended up not needing to plant my feet most of the time I felt like doing it.

I was raining pretty hard so I got to test out my rain gear. It worked well enough considering I was in the rain for an hour and a half.

Two cop cars rode by slow but didn't stop. I'll take that as an okay for practicing there.

Place to get out of the rain:
http://triblox.org/mystuffcauseIpayforthis/CIMG1416.png

Overview:
http://triblox.org/mystuffcauseIpayforthis/CIMG1417.png

No video because I didn't have my waterproof case for my camera with me.

Biker Dash · 05-15-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killpill

Went out today to practice slow speed maneuvers.

I just used the parking spaces to act as lanes and tried to cut down the number of them between where I started the u-turn and where I ended it. I ended up not needing to plant my feet most of the time I felt like doing it.

I was raining pretty hard so I got to test out my rain gear. It worked well enough considering I was in the rain for an hour and a half.

Two cop cars rode by slow but didn't stop. I'll take that as an okay for practicing there.

Ok, the important thing is your practicing what you need to practice, and thats a good thing.
With the PD, they probably would not have bothered you one bit, and would have been quite understanding actually I suspect.
No one who works PD/FD/Ambulance wants to see someone get hurt, so they would most likely be thankful that your doin something to become a safer rider.

Now, as to where the best place is for your feet, I prefer them still attached to the ankles!
As for on a motorcycle, I have never given it much thought, but if you keep following the advice from those more experienced than me, (excellent examples; those who previously posted) then you should be ok.

One thing I would like to add is that quality motorcycle footwear helps a lot in this case. If you wear foot attire that is comfortable and allows you good feel, then it will make using the shifter and brake that much easier. Also, good quality riding boots will help protect your ankles in a crash.

Killpill · 05-15-2011, 09:58 PM

I'll be buying new boots soon, mine are currently construction boots.

Dropped my bike for the first time today. Stalled during a practice u-turn and had to let it go over. No damage, the bike is built for these falls. There was a spot of liquid on the ground when I pulled the bike back up. Smelled faintly of gas. Pretty sure such things are normal when a bike is tipped over too far? I couldn't get it to happen when the bike was upright and the liquid was not there when I got back to my house. When I left after practicing I ended up needing to pull off a u-turn, no problems with it on the street.

I've gotten pretty good at having my feet on the pegs whenever the bike is moving. I still have both feet down when stopped, forgot to practice that. I like being able to rock the bike while at a light to give my legs a good stretch.

CaptCrashIdaho · 05-15-2011, 10:17 PM

Clutch is your buddy! Glad you're OK. Drooling some gas is normal for tip over.

Killpill · 05-15-2011, 10:33 PM

Okay, thanks!

I got pretty close with the clutch today, just had a little fallout right when I stalled. My main problem is getting myself to turn the handlebars as far as I need to do a tight turn.

By the end of practice I was able to do left u-turns within a three parking space area; pretending the middle parking space was the median. Sometimes I pulled off using two parking spaces (one of these was when I tipped).

Right u-turns averaged 3-3.5 spaces but I didn't work them as hard as I did the left.

I'll bring the measuring tape with me next time so I know the feet I'm doing this in.

I was on the balls of my feet too, by the way. Took a little getting used to but I do feel a difference.

stantony1 · 05-15-2011, 10:41 PM

Thanks for the discussion guys, I learned some new tips here.

Girl · 08-13-2011, 09:38 AM

I just do what's comfortable to me. Upon take off I release the clutch until I feel it engage start walking put on the throttle and my feet go up. This is like a 5 seconds process.

CaptCrashIdaho · 08-13-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girl

I just do what's comfortable to me. Upon take off I release the clutch until I feel it engage start walking put on the throttle and my feet go up. This is like a 5 seconds process.

That's a long, long time to have your feet down with a moving motorcycle; if you have saddlebags you risk running your own feet over and, since your feet are out off the pegs you have balance issues. I'd suggest you work on getting your feet up as quick as possible.

(Seriously, count 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, to 5 and that's a long time...)

mellowmarshall · 08-13-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killpill

Okay, thanks!

I got pretty close with the clutch today, just had a little fallout right when I stalled. My main problem is getting myself to turn the handlebars as far as I need to do a tight turn.

By the end of practice I was able to do left u-turns within a three parking space area; pretending the middle parking space was the median. Sometimes I pulled off using two parking spaces (one of these was when I tipped).

Right u-turns averaged 3-3.5 spaces but I didn't work them as hard as I did the left.

I'll bring the measuring tape with me next time so I know the feet I'm doing this in.

I was on the balls of my feet too, by the way. Took a little getting used to but I do feel a difference.

My MSF instructor suggested I practice turning in a spiral, getting tighter as you get comfortable. I can't scrape my pegs (yet) but I'm a lot more comfortable with leaning over at low speeds for sharp turns.

sunflashmace7 · 08-13-2011, 04:49 PM

I have different views from most people on the feet out and balance thing if it is stop and go traffic.( moving forward 5-10ft. at a time) Then I usually don't bother pulling my feet up all the way onto the pegs. I just pull them up off the ground. Now granted 99% of the time I am going in a straight line but our MSF instructor told us 5 feet to pull your feet all the way onto the pegs in most acceleration circumstances. He said that if you try to hard to be fast about it your foot can catch on the peg and it is actually bad for your balance to bring your feet up too quickly. I say let it happen naturally which when you have a bike with good acceleration can be as much as 20 feet in my opinion.

CaptCrashIdaho · 08-13-2011, 06:23 PM

I don't think anyone's suggesting that paddlewalking 5 or 10 feet in traffic is bad--every situation is different. The problem is a "rule of thumb" issue; if you're paddling out off every stop it's a bad habit.

sunflashmace7 · 08-14-2011, 08:34 AM

true enough

Girl · 08-17-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCrashIdaho

That's a long, long time to have your feet down with a moving motorcycle; if you have saddlebags you risk running your own feet over and, since your feet are out off the pegs you have balance issues. I'd suggest you work on getting your feet up as quick as possible.

(Seriously, count 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, to 5 and that's a long time...)

I been practicin! I'm doin good at just pullin my feet right up, it actually feels a lot better. I've been ridin' to work everyday now that I moved.

Girl · 08-17-2011, 02:39 PM

P.S.

I live in NYC, my seconds are not that slow! LOL

Try "wuh-ta-thr-fo-fi-" nil Mississippi

Lil' Red Rocket · 08-18-2011, 03:08 AM

Being able to keep your feet on the pegs also has to do with what type of bike your on.
You never see cops riding spork bikes do you? For that matter cruisers either.
Just standard road machines. Gee I wonder why.

CaptCrashIdaho · 08-18-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Red Rocket

Being able to keep your feet on the pegs also has to do with what type of bike your on.
You never see cops riding spork bikes do you? For that matter cruisers either.
Just standard road machines. Gee I wonder why.

CHP just bought 350 of these Kawasaki C14s...gee...I wonder why?

Be careful when you get into the "my (or that) bike won't do that" mode, the C14 is a sportbike platform. Feet are up and slightly behind you, you're leaned slightly forward and it's got an engine that freaking runs like a bat out of hell.

That said, it'll do all the things a Police Harley, BMW or Honda will do and just as well. It's the RIDER that makes the bike, the bike don't make the rider.

Dodsfall · 08-18-2011, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptCrashIdaho

CHP just bought 350 of these Kawasaki C14s...gee...I wonder why?

I'm guessing these were purchased as interceptors rather than patrol bikes.

CaptCrashIdaho · 08-18-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodsfall

I'm guessing these were purchased as interceptors rather than patrol bikes.

Nope. Those are the new CHP patrol bikes--BMW lost the contract. They will do all the patrol functions the Beemers did. They are cool as heck though!

Roycerson · 08-21-2011, 07:20 PM

I make and extra point to pick both feet up immediately just because I know that motorcycle cops are taught that anyone who doesn't: "has no idea how to ride a motorcycle" and is therefore a target.

My lady tends to walk a couple of steps like the MSF instructor did. My MSF instructor never mentioned it (advanced class) but when demonstrating he took several long exaggerated steps before putting his feet on the pegs. I had already seen ride like a pro so I assumed this was something for noobs to make them more comfortable.

Ride55 · 08-22-2011, 09:59 PM

Funny, I had to sit and think what I do to get my feet up and keep them up. I guess it is so second nature I don't even think about it.

The moment the bike is moving, my feet go up. I taught myself that on the first bike I owned, back in the late 60's. It is a pure snob thing, but I think paddle walking indicates amateur riding as slow speed riding should be one of the basics. In other words, if you cannot do it, then you have not practiced the basics enough. And not because it looks cool, but because you need to understand all of the motorcycle in all of its parts to be able to operate it safely, not only at slow speeds, but high speeds also.

The motorcycle and everything the motorcycle does, is connected. Including the rider. It is Zen like at its finest. It is a dance to the music of Newtons three laws of motion.

I keep my feet up at slow speed by using my rear brake and a very tiny bit of throttle while feathering the clutch. The gyroscopic action of the engine will help with balance. And the more the torque, the better it works.

In effect, I modulate the speed of the bike with the rear brake, the balance of the bike with the engine running and use the clutch to control both.

You will have much more success with this if the engines crankshaft rotates in the same direction as the wheels, such as a front to back v-twin and will have less success if the engine rotates 90 degrees to the to the wheels, such as a boxer. If you have ever wondered why Harleys are so easy to ride at slow speeds, this is one of the reasons. A low center of gravity helps also.

Is leads me back to the second paragraph. You must know how the bike works, to get the best benefit of it, and to be safest on it.

It is something I have noticed the older I get. Back in the day, if you could not fix a bike, then you could not own a bike. And that was because we either did not have the money to get it fixed, or the shops where so far apart it was not practical to get it done there. Now all we need is a line of credit at the bank, a credit card, a cell phone, maybe a driving course and a road test and away we go.

We are loosing something significantly. It is the brain trust, the corporate memory and the result is that we are becoming specialists and moving away from being generalists.

If you want to become a good motorcyclist, find an old bike and get a shop manual for it, then strip it down to its last nut and bolt and put it back together again. You will learn as much about motorcycling from that as you will from learning to ride a bike itself.

------

Oh ya, you can always tell a new SideCar rider because when they get to the first stop sign, they put their foot down.

And, you can tell when a sidecar rider takes his hack off, because when they get to the first stop sign, they forget to put their foot down.

DantheNinja · 12-04-2011, 10:52 PM

On my Ninja 250, I have always been in the habit of keeping my toes on the controls, so that I can brake and/or downshift immediately whenever necessary. Riding in traffic, I never wanted to need that extra second it takes to move the feet back up to the controls. Having the balls of my feet on the pegs is more comfortable and makes me feel slightly more agile, but it also feels like driving my cage on cruise control with my feet tucked under my butt. Am I thinking about it wrongly?

05-13-2011, 10:16 PM	#1
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	Your feet and where they belong I thought this may make a good topic considering how often I end up planting my foot down while moving when I feel the bike begin to start tipping. A bad habit of mine is hovering both of my feet above the ground when I start and go. I'm working on fixing it. At slow speeds it helps a lot in balancing for me, but it causes some bad issues if I'm planning on stopping and suddenly need to start moving. Snapping my legs back breaks the balance and the result is my planting a foot once or twice as I'm accelerating. Someone mentioned motorcycle cops are trained to have their feet on the bike at all times while in motion. This skill seems vital in the city because of the sudden changes in traffic speed. I've gotten pretty good at doing this while stopping, although sometimes I may wobble pretty badly and the car behind me stays back like they're thinking "OMG HE CAN'T RIDE A BIKE". Good method to get tailgaters off you, I guess. So, I figure, lets make a topic to discuss the ins and outs of your feet and where they belong while riding. Last edited by Killpill; 05-13-2011 at 10:18 PM..

05-14-2011, 01:16 AM	#12
rexmitchell Administrator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: THE ATX Posts: 14,686	Staying on the balls of your feet helps to keep balance. I can always spot a newer rider by how long it takes them to get their feet off the pavement and onto the pegs. Truth is, after you are going about 5 mph, you have plenty of balance to keep the bike upright, its strictly fear from that point on. Once you learn good throttle control and have confidence as soon as you start moving you will get your foot off the ground. I usually only use one foot when I am stopped. My right foot is on the ground. As soon as I am in gear, the moment I start moving the foot comes up, once both feet are on the pegs you have better balance and control. Crash can explain this better than I can but if you go at a low speed and focus on your balance on the bike, sometimes even standing up on the pegs, you will get a feel for how you can easily balance the bike with your feet on as compared to off the pegs. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. You may all go to Hell, and I will go to Texas. - Davy Crockett

05-14-2011, 09:37 PM	#20
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	Went out today to practice slow speed maneuvers. I just used the parking spaces to act as lanes and tried to cut down the number of them between where I started the u-turn and where I ended it. I ended up not needing to plant my feet most of the time I felt like doing it. I was raining pretty hard so I got to test out my rain gear. It worked well enough considering I was in the rain for an hour and a half. Two cop cars rode by slow but didn't stop. I'll take that as an okay for practicing there. Place to get out of the rain: http://triblox.org/mystuffcauseIpayforthis/CIMG1416.png Overview: http://triblox.org/mystuffcauseIpayforthis/CIMG1417.png No video because I didn't have my waterproof case for my camera with me. Last edited by Killpill; 05-14-2011 at 09:40 PM..

05-15-2011, 09:58 PM	#22
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	I'll be buying new boots soon, mine are currently construction boots. Dropped my bike for the first time today. Stalled during a practice u-turn and had to let it go over. No damage, the bike is built for these falls. There was a spot of liquid on the ground when I pulled the bike back up. Smelled faintly of gas. Pretty sure such things are normal when a bike is tipped over too far? I couldn't get it to happen when the bike was upright and the liquid was not there when I got back to my house. When I left after practicing I ended up needing to pull off a u-turn, no problems with it on the street. I've gotten pretty good at having my feet on the pegs whenever the bike is moving. I still have both feet down when stopped, forgot to practice that. I like being able to rock the bike while at a light to give my legs a good stretch. Last edited by Killpill; 05-15-2011 at 10:04 PM..

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05-13-2011, 11:10 PM	#3
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	You'll probably have a video segment for every discussion I make but I'm glad it is cataloged in the forums so people can find it easier. xD During u-turns, if I feel like stamping my foot down - what should I do? I know throttling can increase your stability during a turn but don't know if that is the best idea.

05-13-2011, 11:15 PM	#4
Sidewalk Take it to the track Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 137	Keep the balls of your feet (toe area) on the pegs at all times except for when shifting or braking. Use one foot on the ground when at a stop, and only at a stop. As soon as you roll away put your foot on the peg. Have you taken the MSF course? Learn to use the controls; throttle, clutch, and brakes. They will help you keep from falling over. If at any time you feel the bike tipping, just let it go. To keep the story short, I had to do that once on my old 1000RR. Bike was still relatively new, but I got caught in a bad situation and I felt it go. I literally just stepped off the bike as it tipped as if I was putting my bicycle on the ground. It hurt to see the bike just laying there, but I was completely unharmed.

05-13-2011, 11:23 PM	#5
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	I have taken the MSF course and am here to learn as much as I can while I wait for the phone call inviting me to do the advanced course (maybe I should just call them and see what is up with that). I am the type of person who sucks up information and constantly changes viewpoints based on what I'm learn and experience. Sometimes I may ask a question I already think I know the answer to just to see what the answer of a more experienced person is. I did not know about keeping your toes on the pegs, I usually have my toes to the left of the gear shift and to the right of the brake. Same concept?

05-13-2011, 11:26 PM	#6
CaptCrashIdaho Safety Hooligan Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SW Idaho! Posts: 1,681	On a KLR try keeping the balls of your feet on the pegs unless you're using the controls. If the bike feels like it's falling in? Release more clutch and give it some power--see if that helps.

05-13-2011, 11:30 PM	#7
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	Could you explain the reasoning behind keeping the balls of my feet on the pegs? Is it the same concept as not covering the front brake? As for the bike falling, I shall try. I'd love to go out now but it is 11:30PM. Night rides are fun but training in the dark may be a little weird.

05-14-2011, 12:12 AM	#8
CaptCrashIdaho Safety Hooligan Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SW Idaho! Posts: 1,681	When you dance, do you do it flat footed or on the balls of your feet?

05-14-2011, 12:25 AM	#9
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	I actually do not dance, so I couldn't tell you. I'm kinda a shy inverted guy who has stayed on the computer most of his life and I'll leave it at that. But I do understand your point, to an extent. I'll try it out and see what happens.

05-14-2011, 01:05 AM	#11
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	I'll admit to that. I use the balls of my feet in a lot of the things I do. Not that I'm prancing about, I just make things go quicker by adding a flow than if I just went left-foot-right-foot-left-foot-right. I guess I have no more questions until after my riding tomorrow. I'll try and get my camera and tripod set up.

05-14-2011, 01:45 AM	#13
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	You explained well, thank you.

05-14-2011, 10:28 AM	#17
CaptCrashIdaho Safety Hooligan Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SW Idaho! Posts: 1,681	Yup. Dragging the rear helps in low speed situations...keeps you off the front as well.

05-15-2011, 10:17 PM	#23
CaptCrashIdaho Safety Hooligan Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SW Idaho! Posts: 1,681	Clutch is your buddy! Glad you're OK. Drooling some gas is normal for tip over.

05-15-2011, 10:33 PM	#24
Killpill Verified Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Daytona Beach, FL Posts: 45	Okay, thanks! I got pretty close with the clutch today, just had a little fallout right when I stalled. My main problem is getting myself to turn the handlebars as far as I need to do a tight turn. By the end of practice I was able to do left u-turns within a three parking space area; pretending the middle parking space was the median. Sometimes I pulled off using two parking spaces (one of these was when I tipped). Right u-turns averaged 3-3.5 spaces but I didn't work them as hard as I did the left. I'll bring the measuring tape with me next time so I know the feet I'm doing this in. I was on the balls of my feet too, by the way. Took a little getting used to but I do feel a difference.

05-15-2011, 10:41 PM	#25
stantony1 Kindergarten Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: MA Posts: 530	Thanks for the discussion guys, I learned some new tips here.

08-13-2011, 09:38 AM	#26
Girl Verified Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Staten Island, New York Posts: 94	I just do what's comfortable to me. Upon take off I release the clutch until I feel it engage start walking put on the throttle and my feet go up. This is like a 5 seconds process.

08-13-2011, 04:49 PM	#29
sunflashmace7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pensacola Fl Posts: 496	I have different views from most people on the feet out and balance thing if it is stop and go traffic.( moving forward 5-10ft. at a time) Then I usually don't bother pulling my feet up all the way onto the pegs. I just pull them up off the ground. Now granted 99% of the time I am going in a straight line but our MSF instructor told us 5 feet to pull your feet all the way onto the pegs in most acceleration circumstances. He said that if you try to hard to be fast about it your foot can catch on the peg and it is actually bad for your balance to bring your feet up too quickly. I say let it happen naturally which when you have a bike with good acceleration can be as much as 20 feet in my opinion.

08-13-2011, 06:23 PM	#30
CaptCrashIdaho Safety Hooligan Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: SW Idaho! Posts: 1,681	I don't think anyone's suggesting that paddlewalking 5 or 10 feet in traffic is bad--every situation is different. The problem is a "rule of thumb" issue; if you're paddling out off every stop it's a bad habit.

08-14-2011, 08:34 AM	#31
sunflashmace7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Pensacola Fl Posts: 496	true enough

08-17-2011, 02:39 PM	#33
Girl Verified Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Staten Island, New York Posts: 94	P.S. I live in NYC, my seconds are not that slow! LOL Try "wuh-ta-thr-fo-fi-" nil Mississippi

08-18-2011, 03:08 AM	#34
Lil' Red Rocket Master At Arms Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Washingrad, Slick side Posts: 197	Being able to keep your feet on the pegs also has to do with what type of bike your on. You never see cops riding spork bikes do you? For that matter cruisers either. Just standard road machines. Gee I wonder why.

08-21-2011, 07:20 PM	#38
Roycerson Verified Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 39	I make and extra point to pick both feet up immediately just because I know that motorcycle cops are taught that anyone who doesn't: "has no idea how to ride a motorcycle" and is therefore a target. My lady tends to walk a couple of steps like the MSF instructor did. My MSF instructor never mentioned it (advanced class) but when demonstrating he took several long exaggerated steps before putting his feet on the pegs. I had already seen ride like a pro so I assumed this was something for noobs to make them more comfortable.

08-22-2011, 09:59 PM	#39
Ride55 Verified Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Cranbrook BC Posts: 39	Funny, I had to sit and think what I do to get my feet up and keep them up. I guess it is so second nature I don't even think about it. The moment the bike is moving, my feet go up. I taught myself that on the first bike I owned, back in the late 60's. It is a pure snob thing, but I think paddle walking indicates amateur riding as slow speed riding should be one of the basics. In other words, if you cannot do it, then you have not practiced the basics enough. And not because it looks cool, but because you need to understand all of the motorcycle in all of its parts to be able to operate it safely, not only at slow speeds, but high speeds also. The motorcycle and everything the motorcycle does, is connected. Including the rider. It is Zen like at its finest. It is a dance to the music of Newtons three laws of motion. I keep my feet up at slow speed by using my rear brake and a very tiny bit of throttle while feathering the clutch. The gyroscopic action of the engine will help with balance. And the more the torque, the better it works. In effect, I modulate the speed of the bike with the rear brake, the balance of the bike with the engine running and use the clutch to control both. You will have much more success with this if the engines crankshaft rotates in the same direction as the wheels, such as a front to back v-twin and will have less success if the engine rotates 90 degrees to the to the wheels, such as a boxer. If you have ever wondered why Harleys are so easy to ride at slow speeds, this is one of the reasons. A low center of gravity helps also. Is leads me back to the second paragraph. You must know how the bike works, to get the best benefit of it, and to be safest on it. It is something I have noticed the older I get. Back in the day, if you could not fix a bike, then you could not own a bike. And that was because we either did not have the money to get it fixed, or the shops where so far apart it was not practical to get it done there. Now all we need is a line of credit at the bank, a credit card, a cell phone, maybe a driving course and a road test and away we go. We are loosing something significantly. It is the brain trust, the corporate memory and the result is that we are becoming specialists and moving away from being generalists. If you want to become a good motorcyclist, find an old bike and get a shop manual for it, then strip it down to its last nut and bolt and put it back together again. You will learn as much about motorcycling from that as you will from learning to ride a bike itself. ------ Oh ya, you can always tell a new SideCar rider because when they get to the first stop sign, they put their foot down. And, you can tell when a sidecar rider takes his hack off, because when they get to the first stop sign, they forget to put their foot down.

12-04-2011, 10:52 PM	#40
DantheNinja Dr. Seuss was right about everything. Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Shelby, NC Posts: 114	On my Ninja 250, I have always been in the habit of keeping my toes on the controls, so that I can brake and/or downshift immediately whenever necessary. Riding in traffic, I never wanted to need that extra second it takes to move the feet back up to the controls. Having the balls of my feet on the pegs is more comfortable and makes me feel slightly more agile, but it also feels like driving my cage on cruise control with my feet tucked under my butt. Am I thinking about it wrongly?