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Old 10-09-2010, 10:28 AM   #1
shubonker
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Default What's first sign of starter going bad?

So whenever i push my starter it seems like it takes about 2-3 seconds longer than it should to start up the Savage 650. Is that normal or is my starter going bad?
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:34 AM   #2
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might just need a tune up. the starter just turns the engine over. It's has nothing to do with making it fire. try a tune up and make sure you fuel air mixture is good also. sound like you don't have a good spark or you are not getting enough fuel. you can take you spark plug out and look at the end to tell what kind of mixture you have.
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:59 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shubonker View Post
So whenever i push my starter it seems like it takes about 2-3 seconds longer than it should to start up the Savage 650. Is that normal or is my starter going bad?
Classic sign of:
Colder weather requires the use of more choke......
OR
Old battery going bad.......
or maybe both.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:22 AM   #4
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My battery is going bad, so if I want to ride I can only ride to a friends house or something so if it won't start I can at least get it jump started...

Last edited by JasonSK; 10-09-2010 at 11:22 AM.. Reason: Bad spelling
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonSK View Post
My battery is going bad, so if I want to ride I can only ride to a friends house or something so if it won't start I can at least get it jump started...
And your point IS......????
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Old 10-09-2010, 02:22 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easy Rider 2 View Post
And your point IS......????
I'm retarded. lol
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonSK View Post
I'm retarded. lol
Agreed.



Easy rider brought up a good point, it is colder out. Are you using your choke when you are trying to start it?
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:47 PM   #8
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I usually turn the choke on after it's started, but i'll try having it on before i start. I'll also check the battery with my voltmeter.
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Old 10-09-2010, 09:50 PM   #9
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Try it before you start it. That is how it is supposed to be done.
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Old 10-09-2010, 10:15 PM   #10
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Have the battery checked out, it may turn over but if the amps aren't up it will drag and take longer to start. Like has been said also,if it's cold that will thicken the oil and also affect the batteries power. Use a battery tender when cold.
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Old 10-09-2010, 11:14 PM   #11
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We had a couple of Suzuki Savages; very good bikes; but it takes a very good starter and an even better battery to turn them over. That big single takes a lot of battery current.

So make sure the battery is up to the task; don't skimp on a cheap battery for that bike.

That engine also has an automatic compression release to help it turn over too. It has to be working properly.

The starter gets a good workout; so it may be getting weak. Just make sure the battery is strong; it is less expensive than the starter.
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Old 10-10-2010, 11:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCO View Post
Try it before you start it. That is how it is supposed to be done.


Just when you think you've heard everything.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
I usually turn the choke on after it's started, but i'll try having it on before i start. I'll also check the battery with my voltmeter.
When checking a battery you want to see what the voltage drops to while the starter is cranking the engine. If the battery drops below 11.5 volts the batter is getting week. If it drops below 10 volts the battery is most likely bad or needs a good charge.

Number one cause of stator, voltage regulator failures is a bad battery. What happens is the charging system is attempting to bring a bad battery to a full charge. In simple terms the charging system is overworked (creating heat) and eventually fails.

First signs of a starter going bad is it (drags) meaning it won’t crank as fast as it should (with a good fully charged battery)

If while attempting to start the bike if the voltage drops below 10 volts is can make it very hard starting due to the effect of the low voltage to the ignition system.
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine View Post
Number one cause of stator, voltage regulator failures is a bad battery. What happens is the charging system is attempting to bring a bad battery to a full charge. In simple terms the charging system is overworked (creating heat) and eventually fails.
Sorry but I can't agree with that.

Most modern bike regulators are a shunt type which basically allows the alternator to run at (or near)full output all the time and "shunts" the un-needed power to ground. This is for small to med. sized bikes without a lot of alternator capacity.

On big touring bikes with LOTS of generating capacity, the regulation works somewhat differently so that it is not putting out the maximum all the time.

I would say that the most common cause of charging system problems is component failure in the stator or R/R itself and bad connections. When the charging stops and you run the battery down once or twice, then it's a gonner too.
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:53 PM   #15
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Here's a video of how it sounds like, just recorded it. The battery drops to 10.8 volts when starting, i assume that means its getting weaker. Its around 12-12.8v before i push the start, and at 12v while running. Should i replace it soon?


Last edited by shubonker; 10-11-2010 at 12:59 PM..
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Old 10-11-2010, 04:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Most modern bike regulators are a shunt type which basically allows the alternator to run at (or near)full output all the time and "shunts" the un-needed power to ground. This is for small to med. sized bikes without a lot of alternator capacity.
What I believe you are missing is the amperage or watts draw. A stator will put out full power all the time, (meaning voltage). If the battery fails to come to full charge it will demand full amperage and this creates excessive heat and that is where the damage is caused. Example 1200 wings had problem with plug connectors melting and causing the stator to burn up. Why did they burn, weak battery and attempting to bring it to a full charge would be one of the reasons, or there were so many accessories pulling excessive amperage. Sometimes both conditions would exist.

I’m not saying this is the only reason for alternator stator failures but I do know it is a big one. One of the classes I took Delco took a 85 amp alternator hooked to a bad battery and then put a 55 amp load on it (simulating a truck electrical load). The alternator blue two diodes before we returned to class the next morning. They then took another new alternator with a new battery and this time with a 70 amp load and ran for the next two days without any problem. Class ended.

High current draw and heat are the most damaging thing to electrical systems. Doesn’t matter if you are dealing with a 200 watt stator or a 135 amp truck alternator the principles are the same, bad batter short charging life.
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shubonker View Post
The battery drops to 10.8 volts when starting, i assume that means its getting weaker. Its around 12-12.8v before i push the start, and at 12v while running.
No not necessarily. And "about" numbers aren't good enough.

10.8 while starting might be normal.

Anything below your resting battery voltage while running is NOT, however.

If the resting battery voltage is 12.6 (normal average) then with the bike running, it should never be BELOW that.....except maybe at idle if your idle speed is set too low......and from the video, it sounds like your idle speed is set WAY too low.

I think it is likely that most or all of your starting problem actually was poor choke technique.......and if your battery is not staying charged, a low idle speed might be a MAJOR factor in that.

I would not rush to buy any new parts quite yet......including a battery......but if it's more than 3 years old, it probably wouldn't be money wasted.

Last edited by Easy Rider 2; 10-11-2010 at 06:32 PM..
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Old 10-11-2010, 06:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaine View Post
What I believe you are missing is the amperage or watts draw. A stator will put out full power all the time, (meaning voltage).

Doesn’t matter if you are dealing with a 200 watt stator or a 135 amp truck alternator the principles are the same, bad batter short charging life.
Power does NOT equal voltage and amperage does NOT equal watts. It takes both voltage and current.....and you can't have one without the other.

I guess you missed the part of my post where I said that higher capacity systems WORK DIFFERENTLY ???

Whether or not a bad battery puts extra strain on the charging system depends on WHY the battery is bad. The most common form of failure is sulphation of the plates which doesn't change the charging current much at all.......but won't give up the charge when it's needed. A shorted plate or two is a WHOLE different story.
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