Drive types

[DogFather]

What are some of the pros and cons, of shaft vs belt vs chain drive?

A guy told ne tears ago, that a chain broke on him at 65 MPH and he's
glad to be alive. So, Im just wondering, if problems like that come up?

Shaft seems to me the way to go, but I guess that could fail too.

Read here:


Chain Drive vs Shaft Drive
chain vs belt
Belt/Chain Driven Vs. Shaft Driven
Chain, Belt, or Shaft Drive, What is better?


.etc.

[WintrSol]

Good references.

Whatever kind you like, poor maintenance leads to failures, life-threatening failures, as that guy found out the hard way. I have chain and shaft drive bikes; shaft is cleaner, doesn't need hand-on maintenance as often, but does introduce some differences in handling. On the other hand, you can't change final drive ratios on a whim.

[Kingshead]

Can't really say I prefer any one over the other, but the shaft does require less mantainance, the chain is easier to change drive ratios on, and the belt is quiet and safer than the chain (but more prone to breakage and wear). If I really like the bike, it's drive system won't be a factor in my purchasing it or not.

[black27696]

Shaft - bulletproof and crazy expensive if you have to replace it. Some jacking under hard acceleration.

Belt - awesome power delivery, not too bad cost-wise to replace, lasts a long time but not as long as shaft

chain - best power delivery, cheapest to replace, wears out the quickest.

That's been my understanding.

[Kingshead]

I've never owned a belt drive but I would think a properly maintained chain should last longer (timing chain VS belt), maybe some-one with a lot of experience with both could answer this one.

[black27696]

I'm just going off of what I've always been told, it'd be interesting to hear from experienced people on the matter.

[tom10167]

Belt you're more likely to get stuff caught in it, not usually a huge deal but it can happen. Especially if you bob your bike and take the guard off. I've put about 1500 miles(not many) and never had an issue though.

My last bike was a shaft, it was a 650 so I didn't experience jacking really. Current bike is belt.


Personally, I hate dealing with things, belt and shaft require no upkeep and are silent. They also produce no mess. Works great for me.

I have no desire to change drive ratios, though, so I'm probably not like most riders.

[DeltaP]

Personaly I could never trust a "drive belt" listen to it " drive belt " it just sounds wrong. my wifes vacume has a drive belt, I dunno MHO
edit:
After reading the other threads that Custom85 put up links to I can agree with this one , this happens to me when I leave my road into 55+ MPH traffic and have to get across 3 lanes to get to a turning lane , but only when I really get on it and have to shift to 2nd.

Originally Posted by ZugZwang

Tfee3, I recall reading about this issue back in the eighty's in one of the motorcycle mags. I still have many of them in storage. My recollection was that the technology as it was at the time was proving difficult to apply to Sportbikes because of the traction issue accelerating out of corners while the bike was at severe lean angles. I just might scan some old mags for information.

Other than that I've never had any problems with shaft drives.

[ryjb]

It is all about personal preference. For myself in order of my preference is shaft, belt, then chain. Enjoy the belt and shaft due to it being quieter and easier to maintain. Chain has its benefits I just hated how dirty is was to mess with.

[black27696]

I'm seeing manufacturers going the belt route more and more which tells me something. Or maybe they just find them cheaper to make?

[Kingshead]

One major problem I see with belts for the occasional rider (think 100 miles a year) is dry rot. Having never owned a bike with belt drive I would also think it's power delivery would have a rubberband affect, stretch on acceleration and then snap back. Just sayin.

[soxOZ]

Originally Posted by black27696

I'm seeing manufacturers going the belt route more and more which tells me something. Or maybe they just find them cheaper to make?

I really feel that manufacturers go with what sells and is also cost effective to manufacture, plus if you loose a belt, it's a good money spinner for them...

But figure this one, look at Yamaha's line up of bikes...
650 = Shaft.... 950 = Belt.... 1100 = Shaft... 1300 = Belt...
Guess their covering all bases hey.... Go figure...

[DeltaP]

Ya I couldnt figure why Honda went to chain on the shadows a few years ago, I figured it was cost effective.

[DogFather]

My understanding is they are made with Kevlar. Same material used in bullet
proof vests....very strong stuff. Belt tend to least near 100K miles, or that's
the claim. I know people with over 50K on a belt drive bike, belt still going strong.

[soxOZ]

Originally Posted by DogFather

My understanding is they are made with Kevlar. Same material used in bullet proof vests....very strong stuff. Belt tend to least near 100K miles, or that's the claim. I know people with over 50K on a belt drive bike, belt still going strong.

You heard right, they are usually scheduled to be replaced at 100,000km (approx 62,000miles) and probably can and do last to 160,000km (100,000miles) depending or riding style and weathering....
But not unless you get a stone in there between the belt and gear when it can rip out a few teeth off the belt...
Not a common occurrence though unless you do a lot of riding on dirt or gravel roads and then you have a higher chance of this happening...

Belt drives are usually equal or cost effective over chain drives as most manufactures recommended to replace the chain & gear about every 30,000km (approx 20,000miles).
So if you look at replacing the chain / gears about 3 times per 1 belt change, they are comparable in cost for maintenance..
Unless you loose the belt through damage...

[badinfluence63]

Originally Posted by WintrSol

Good references.

Whatever kind you like, poor maintenance leads to failures, life-threatening failures, as that guy found out the hard way. I have chain and shaft drive bikes; shaft is cleaner, doesn't need hand-on maintenance as often, but does introduce some differences in handling. On the other hand, you can't change final drive ratios on a whim.

Or in some cases like in BMW's the shaft drives are known to be needing replacement at 50,000 miles.

Chains gives one better repair options.

[David 1]

The belts don't stretch much as they have steel lines in them. Just like tires. And you can adjust them to keep the tightness just right.
Chains are regular maintenance, oil or lube, clean, and they do wear out, along with the sprockets.
You can catch things in a chain or a belt. We have seen chains break and catch the back wheel, causing the wheel to lock, and a crash. A belt could possibly do that, but less likely, I think.
I have never heard of a Honda shaft drive fail, but then, they might not get high mileage. Maybe if they did, they would have some failures.
The BMW's do have some shaft failure, but the question is, how much? 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000.
And at what mileage. Many times it is beyond 50,000 or 100,000 miles, which probably many other bikes never see.
There is talk of the BMW shaft failure on the www, but that only highlights the problems. Never the many others who have no problem.
It is 3 different solutions to the same problem, and each has advantages and disadvantages. It all depends on which one you want to go with.
dc

[wgash1]

l tend to prefer belt drive over shaft manly because your not restricted to standard gearing also customizing becomes abit easier with lowering or wheel combination's

[Stainlesstehle]

Customizing aside...The biggest downside to shaftdrive is weight. But they are very low maint. and extreamly smooth running. I like mine!

[alalien]

I love my shaft drive as well, but will admit that the belt drive on my wife's bike is uber silent.

Thanks to Bobbinalong, I now know what that "clunk" sound in my drive is. Some shaft drive systems have dampeners built in. Like all mechanical parts, they'll suffer some wear over time. My bike will make a slight "clunk" sound as I started rolling in 1st gear. That's just the wear of the dampeners.

Outside of that, the only downside to a shaft drive I have ever heard about is about a 5% loss in possible horsepower. I never looked into the validity of that claim, but I can see how someone could come up with that conclusion.

Chains should never be a threatening problem. That only happens when the bike's owner doesn't perform regular chain maintenance. Part o that maintenance is "clean and inspect" and knowing what one is looking for in terms of slack and wear. A good rule of thumb for most chains - a "popping" sound when riding is never a good thing.

[cbdallas]

Yamaha attempted a 'best of both worlds' drive type when they installed a non-o-ring chain on the XV920 and sealed it in a case. Proper maintance was an occasional tightening and some lithium grease added through an access hole at the rear of the case.

When I bought mine, I opened up the case, scraped out all the old grease I could get with a long screwdriver, closed it back up and filled it with cheap 5W-20 oil, ran it through the gears on the center stand, drained and repeated several times. That was really the only method of cleaning it, but since it was sealed, it was only dirty with old, caked-on grease. I finally just left it about 1/8th full of oil and let it be a 'splash lubrication' type system.

Loved this setup because the rear wheel came off the same way it does with a shaft-drive setup. Pull the axle, yank the wheel away from the drive unit, and it's off. No greasy chain to wrestle with. Nice setup, but it wasn't without its flaws. If you decide to use oil instead of lithium grease, be prepared for seepage on your garage floor.

[KevinE1]

My last two bikes have been shaft drive. Never an issue with my first bike. sold that one with 77,000 miles on it. Never had to replace the rubber discs that where in the hub.My current bike only has 24,000 miles on it and again no issues, as far as maintence.

Reading all the replies and when chain got mentioned I remember the oilly mess. Don't miss that at all.

[HKshooter]

I don't believe stones or debri are as detrimental to the life of a belt as one may think. If a rock gets caught between the belt and sprocket the belt has enough give to simply let it ride around the sprocket until it's released on the other side.
I owned a belt bike for a few years. When I bought it I was skeptical but in the end I ended up liking the belt much more than either the chain or the shaft. Never had one problem with the belt and I had to adjust it less often than I did the chain on my old KZ. Very smooth and quiet.

[Easy Rider 2]

Originally Posted by DogFather

What are some of the pros and cons, of shaft vs belt vs chain drive?

I don't think that is a good question really.

For most riders, when you find a bike that you REALLY like in all other respects, you don't generally CARE what kind of final drive it has.

If two bikes were absolutely tied in my evaluation, I'd pick the shaft........but that has never happened to me in my 40+ years of riding.

[BJMartin]

Originally Posted by Stainlesstehle

Customizing aside...The biggest downside to shaftdrive is weight. But they are very low maint. and extreamly smooth running. I like mine!

As long as you never have to shift. lol
My buddys Mean Streak 1600 is shaft driven and it CLUNKS into gear. Doesnt matter how you set the clutch. I mean, yeah, when its going its fine but honestly, the belt on my warrior is WAY smoother.
IMO of course!

[RUMBLEBK]

Originally Posted by DeltaP

Ya I couldnt figure why Honda went to chain on the shadows a few years ago, I figured it was cost effective.

I wondered this exact thing. I was in the shop the other day getting new tires, and I asked one of the mechanics why the Shadows use chains. I guess some still have shaft, or so I found out. But he said mainly on the 750's it was for the power issue. Chains will produce more power to the rear wheel, than a belt, and quite a bit more than shaft. Years ago I had a CB900C that was shaft, and if it was chain it would have been a rocket.

So anyway the shift to a chain option on the Shadow was for more gearing flexibility, and better power. So I was told. My current Shadow has a chain, but my next bike will be shaft. I am to old to be gettin' my fingers dirty!

[Easy Rider 2]

Originally Posted by RUMBLEBK

Chains will produce more power to the rear wheel, than a belt, and quite a bit more than shaft.

I think that is mostly overblown for street bikes as there isn't really THAT much power lost turning the gears in a shaft drive.

Now, if we are talking a racing bike where a tenth of a horsepower and a hundredth of a second is the difference between winning and losing.....

[BJMartin]

Originally Posted by Easy Rider 2

I think that is mostly overblown for street bikes as there isn't really THAT much power lost turning the gears in a shaft drive.

Now, if we are talking a racing bike where a tenth of a horsepower and a hundredth of a second is the difference between winning and losing.....

I agree...on a regular bike, there isnt going to be much difference at all as far as power is concerned.

[Kingshead]

The King has returned.

[badinfluence63]

Chains are fixable on the road with some easy to carry extra links. Yes there is a chance of danger and harm with a broken chain

Belts...not as easily fixable but the do make a splicing kit for roadside repairs on HD's anyways..

Shaft..when it breaks you're done.

[Stainlesstehle]

How often do shafts break? Never heard of one personaly, although I'm sure they do. I've just never heard of one breaking unless seriously abused or neglected.

[DogFather]

I have never heard of it either, with regular maintenance. A shaft will outlast
the rest of the powertrain. At least, this is my understanding. This is why
a shaft is considered a safer way to go.....never breaks!

[badinfluence63]

Originally Posted by Stainlesstehle

How often do shafts break? Never heard of one personaly, although I'm sure they do. I've just never heard of one breaking unless seriously abused or neglected.

Maybe not the actual shafts but there are moving parts that assist the shaft ad are a point of weakness.

BMW's back in the late 70's-early 80's were known to have just those issues at about 50,000 miles and owners were advised to change them out at about 50,000miles. Some may never see 50,000 miles on a motorcycle but for those who tour long distance that could be a major inconvenience especially if you were in another country.

Belts are cleaner then chain drive, less maintenence and as long as you don't ride abusively and stay out of gravel very dependable.

I've only had chains and belts. Never want a shaft drive. What is the response time from throttle twist to forward motion of the bike? Is there any lag on a shaft driven bike?

[OTD]

Originally Posted by badinfluence63

Maybe not the actual shafts but there are moving parts that assist the shaft ad are a point of weakness.

BMW's back in the late 70's-early 80's were known to have just those issues at about 50,000 miles and owners were advised to change them out at about 50,000miles. Some may never see 50,000 miles on a motorcycle but for those who tour long distance that could be a major inconvenience especially if you were in another country.

Belts are cleaner then chain drive, less maintenence and as long as you don't ride abusively and stay out of gravel very dependable.

I've only had chains and belts. Never want a shaft drive. What is the response time from throttle twist to forward motion of the bike? Is there any lag on a shaft driven bike?

I don't experience any lag. And the twisting squating sensation that some shaft drives used to have is gone.

[soxOZ]

I think that shaft drives had received the same negative reviews that front wheel drive cars (eg mini) when first released and they did have some problems and issues with them.
But all the latest shaft drives are superb, and also look at how many front wheel drives there are now, so I'm sure that over the coming years you will probably see more shaft drives on street bikes, whether you like it or not.
Oh except for Harley's (don't think they'd ever change), and high performance/race bikes etc or those purpose built bikes of course to fit a specific market will stay with either chain (performance) or belt (Image/style)...
As for lag, well theoretically there should be less lag in a shaft than chain, but I do know when riding my 2010 spirit (shaft) there is no lag when the clutch is released...

[Kingshead]

Originally Posted by badinfluence63

Maybe not the actual shafts but there are moving parts that assist the shaft ad are a point of weakness.

BMW's back in the late 70's-early 80's were known to have just those issues at about 50,000 miles and owners were advised to change them out at about 50,000miles. Some may never see 50,000 miles on a motorcycle but for those who tour long distance that could be a major inconvenience especially if you were in another country.

Belts are cleaner then chain drive, less maintenence and as long as you don't ride abusively and stay out of gravel very dependable.

I've only had chains and belts. Never want a shaft drive. What is the response time from throttle twist to forward motion of the bike? Is there any lag on a shaft driven bike?

OK,...Lets set the record straight. Shaft drive bikes have been around since way before any of us were born (yes,...even you John). The Germans used them in WWII and with side cars and 2 wheel drive would literally go anywhere. Shaft drive bikes have absolutely NOTHING in common with front wheel drive, as these require CV joints (the week link in a front wheel drive system) to allow for steering as well. The reason why shaft drives fail is poor maintenance to the extent of total neglect or mechanic ignorance. The shaft has splines on both ends which should be regularly greased,...the rear spline every time the tire is changed and the front every 25,000 miles or so. The type of grease required is a Molybdenum disulfide or ("Moly"). One of the major contributors to premature failure is the bike shops using Moly designed for heavy equipment which has a Moly content of only 3% where Honda specifies 60%. There is also a new product out by Dupont called Krytox which is actually a Teflon bearing grease which lasts virtually forever and allowing greatly extended maintenance schedules. I'll be bringing this up with my mechanic soon and trying this with my bike. For any of you interestred in further info on this issue this is the web site. www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/shaft.html ok, tried the url direct and didn't see the article about greasing the splines so try the directions below.

Ok update on the site: just type in (motorcycle shaft drive spline greasing) and click on the site (Motorcycle shaft drive grease) no paranthesis required.

Martin

[soxOZ]

Originally Posted by Kingshead

Shaft drive bikes have absolutely NOTHING in common with front wheel drive, as these require CV joints (the week link in a front wheel drive system) to allow for steering as well. Martin

Hi Martin, if your referring to my post about my mention of front wheel drives (FWD), I was not saying that they were similar, but only used the analogy of the bad rap FWD cars got when originally released (due to quirky handling, feed back through the steering just to mention a couple) to how some of the earlier shaft drive bikes also got this stigma by early problems.
And totally agree with you about if they are maintained correctly it will usually be the last thing on the bike to ever wear out...

[Stainlesstehle]

Yup- more technical, but thats 'bout what we're sayin. Basicly, ride what you like. There are pros and cons to any drive system.

[Kingshead]

Originally Posted by soxOZ

Hi Martin, if your referring to my post about my mention of front wheel drives (FWD), I was not saying that they were similar, but only used the analogy of the bad rap FWD cars got when originally released (due to quirky handling, feed back through the steering just to mention a couple) to how some of the earlier shaft drive bikes also got this stigma by early problems.
And totally agree with you about if they are maintained correctly it will usually be the last thing on the bike to ever wear out...

Hey soxOZ,

I guess by early designs you must mean early to the manufacturer since as I said,...this type of drive has been around for a very long long time. If there was any stigma to the Asian bikes using shaft drives it was most likely do to faulty maintenance. It wouldn't suprise me if the Asian manufacturers were selling the shaft drive as zero maintenance to lure Harley buyers away. BMW owners know about the required maintenance shaft drives need and experience as you said,...shafts that out live the bikes.

I would tend to believe any "bad rap" could be laid on the prejudice of the chain and belt drive crouds. It's kind of like the "cheap Jap crap" from the American made only crowd.

Martin