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Old 04-22-2010, 11:14 AM   #1
iamjustifyd
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Default Abrasion chart

Been some questions about what kind of gear to buy. Found this awhile back and thought might be good to post up again.


Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers
Pounds of force until fabric tears Abrasion cycles on pavement until fabric fails
CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure
70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure
500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure
200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure
500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure
620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure
NEW Competition Grade Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure
1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure
Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 970 cycles to failure Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

This is how quickly some materials take to hole:
Material Seconds
Denim 0.2 to 0.5
Some race gloves 0.6
Most leather gloves 1.0 to 1.8
Keprotec stretch material 0.9
Poor Kevlar 1.0
Two layers of waxed cotton 1.3
1.3mm thick cow hide 3.8
Two layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide 18
Three layers of 1.3mm thick cowhide 55
Two layers of Kevlar plain weave 5.6
Suede 18
Boot leather (generally 2.2mm thick) 20
Leather stretch panels 20.4


There is also this test from a while back:

Drag Test

"For the Drag Test, samples were stitched to a bag that held a 75-pound
sandbag inside a milk crate, then dragged behind a pickup truck..."

New, 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ----------------------- 3' 10"
Senior Balistic Nylon ----------------------------------- 3' 10"
Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz/sq. ft. --- 4' 3"
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz/sq ft. ------------- 4' 4"
Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans ------------ 4' 5"
Cordura Nylon Type 440 ----------------------------- 18' 3"
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 ------------------ 22' 1"
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz/sq. ft. -------- 86' 0"


Taber Test

"For the Taber Test, the specimen was mounted on a rotating platform and
scuffed by two rubber-emery grinding wheels." The numbers represent the
number of revolutions until the fabric totally fails. A vacuum clears
debris.

Two-year-old 100% Cotton Denim Jeans 168
New 100% Cotton Denim Jeans 225
Kevlar 29 Aramid Fiber, Style 713 506
Cordura Nylon, Type 440 559
Leather, Lightweight, Nude Finish, 2.25 oz./sq. ft. 564
Leather, Fashion Weight, 1.75 oz./sq. ft. 750
Senior Ballistic Nylon 817
Leather, Competition Weight, 3 oz./sq. ft. 2600

More to consider...

"Finally, protection from road abrasion cannot be guaranteed by a
materials abrasion resistance alone. A jacket may have panels of
highly abrasion-resistant materials, yet if low-quality stitching joins
those panels and the seams come apart upon impact or during a slide, then
the abrasion resistance of the panels could count for nothing.
Furthermore, an ill-fitting garment may ride up in a slide, contorting
the body and exposing the skin. And the best jacket in the world, left
unzipped and/or unsnapped, won't give riders the protection they pay
for. When it comes to safety, the issues are more complex than just the
abrasion resistance of materials." __________________

From another site:

The textiles vs leathers debate is all about tradeoffs. Choosing which material to use to cover your hide with and spend your pennies on depends on how much you value individual tradeoffs and ultimately, your intended use and riding conditions. Sounds easy enough, but deciding between textiles vs leathers has had great rider minds in a muddle and increasingly so over the last couple of years as the quality and versatility of both materials has improved so much! Just type in “textiles vs leathers ” into google and you will find that 90% of the results are from forums with the answer ultimately resulting in the fact that it depends on your personal preferences. The problem is that this does not help those new to the biking world who have not had the time or experience to develop their own, well-guided preferences… and so the argument goes on.
But, it’s really quite simple if you use the BMI (Best Motorcycle Information) textiles vs leathers test. This test takes the four most differentiating attributes of the two materials into consideration – price, maintenance, comfort and protection. Each attribute is also assigned to either leathers or textiles, depending on which material has the greater advantage in terms of the attribute. After reading the brief summary on each, assign a score out of a hundred to each attribute, giving those attributes that are most important to you higher scores, so that in the end the total score of your four attributes adds to 100. Then add up the score that you gave to the leather attributes and textile attributes, and the material with the highest score is your answer – and best of all it will be unique to your personal preferences.
Price - Textiles
Motorcycle textiles are cheaper to buy than leathers. It is also much harder to judge the quality of leathers and so you take the risk of paying a lot of money for a suit that does not have quality stitching and construction. (Just beware however that it is widely accepted that your textile suit will probably only survive one crash before you have to fork out for a new pair.)
Maintenance - Textiles
This one is simple – motorcycle textiles can be thrown in a commercial washer, while leathers will need to be sent to the cleaners.
Comfort - Textiles
Motorcycle textiles have an all weather capability: vents for when it is warm, liners for when it is cold and water resistance for rain. It breathes more easily than leather, and water slides off it like a ducks back.
Leather is also much heavier than textile.
Protection - Leather
Tests are conducted all the time to compare the abrasion resistance of motorcycle riding gear materials and leather always comes out on top as the most durable material. Furthermore, leather does not melt from friction, it will cushion your fall more than motorcycle textiles would and it offers the best protection against a road rash. The fact that leather also lasts through multiple crashes whilst textiles will probably only last through one, says a lot about the difference in protection and impact between the two materials.
The textiles vs leathers debate basically comes down to protection vs everything else.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:24 AM   #2
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love this, i have been searching for an estimate of different wear levels.

odd that two year old jeans outperformed new jeans in the drag test.
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Old 04-23-2010, 12:02 AM   #3
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NICE!
Thanks Mr. Justifyd. This is really nice "proof" regarding materials for best protection!
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by super32 View Post
NICE!
Thanks Mr. Justifyd. This is really nice "proof" regarding materials for best protection!
I don't think she would like being called Mr. lol

Thanks for the info Justy, that helps in the my decision on jackets
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Old 04-23-2010, 02:52 AM   #5
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on the road tests, from personal experiance -
jeans & t-shirt - road rash to the bone & broken limbs, severe bruising.

jeans & denim jacket - same as above

jeans & waxed cotton bike jacket - same as above but elbows escaped.

textile bike jacket with elbow & shoulder pads + leather bike pants - bad bruising and road rash to arms & sides, bottom half bruised.

heavyweight armoured leather bike jacket & pants - no bones broken ( apart from hand lol) road rash to knee at side of slider, bruising all over but no road rash to upper half.

i know what i'd rather be wearing
not too sure about the figures for kevlar - on the road it really doesn't offer much protection and gets shredded almost instantly, rendering it useless, whereas leather (usually) buffs up ok after a minor off.

not doubting the figures, just saying that roads have different surfaces, some fine, some very coarse ie tarmac vs concrete would be very different wear characteristics for each fabric.

main point of interest, as i've said before, denim is only good for soaking up blood.
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Old 04-23-2010, 03:21 AM   #6
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zoiks!
i've been away too long... my apologies IAMJustifyd.
I mistaken your forum name with someone else
i should have noticed your signature w/ your name
my bad.
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Old 04-23-2010, 08:13 AM   #7
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Thanks I will have to come back to this site when I am looking at pants again.
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Old 04-23-2010, 09:27 AM   #8
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It would appear that riding in jeans is about as effective as shorts. The issue for me is I know what the best protection would be, but I have not found any that is comfortable enough to wear all the time. It is a balance between the two (comfort and protection) that I try to strike. I always wear gear helmet to boots, but when it gets warm it is just difficult to dress in armored pants and leathers and not sweat into a big puddle. I do have a couple pairs of kevlar lined jeans and a mesh jacket for those warmer days. If it so uncomfortable that you leave it at home, the best gear will do you no good.
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Old 04-23-2010, 03:46 PM   #9
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Thanks for posting that chart, Sherry, I had never seen it before. Some day, when I get rich, I will have a good set of Leathers for Winter riding. Winter is when the roads around here are most treachorous and the people on them are at their nuttiest!
Thanks again......there's good info there.
It must be good.......it pretty much goes along with what I've believed for years
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Old 04-23-2010, 04:30 PM   #10
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on the road tests, from personal experiance -
jeans & t-shirt - road rash to the bone & broken limbs, severe bruising.

ooouuuccchhh!!!!! aaauuugghhh!!!!! I couldn't even imagine rash to the bone!!!

No sweat Super32
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Old 07-15-2010, 07:01 PM   #11
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This thread is not a sticky in the "First Bike / New Rider" section of the site, but I think it should be! This is a great thread that may help people that are buying their gear. Can someone please suggest this to a moderator?
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Old 07-15-2010, 11:34 PM   #12
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you guys need to remember that leather slides a LOT better than textile regardless of what durability characteristics it may have. when textile catches pavement and tears, it doesn't do you any good.

kangaroo and stingray leathers slide better than cowhide, full grain better than top grain cowhide, and so forth. abrasion resistance doesn't tell the whole story.

then again i'm a guy that rides in a 2 piece leather suit, race boots and gloves....so what do i know?
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSherpa197 View Post
you guys need to remember that leather slides a LOT better than textile regardless of what durability characteristics it may have. when textile catches pavement and tears, it doesn't do you any good.

kangaroo and stingray leathers slide better than cowhide, full grain better than top grain cowhide, and so forth. abrasion resistance doesn't tell the whole story.

then again i'm a guy that rides in a 2 piece leather suit, race boots and gloves....so what do i know?
How are you able to do that in the summers? Do you just deal with the sweat? Do the vented arms provide enough venting to make it tolerable? It has to be at least as hot in Georgia as it is here in northern Alabama.

I do plan on buying some leather stuff when it cools off a bit. Buying all your gear is expensive. So, I can't do it all at once. I still need some pants. My temporary solution is a pair of 15oz (very thick denim) Carhartt pants that are on the way, combined with some motocross knee pads that fit under my pants. I've been eyeing some "slider" undershorts, but those have to wait until next month too.
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Old 07-16-2010, 11:22 AM   #14
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Clearly, three pair of assless chaps are better than one ...
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:41 PM   #15
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my leather jacket is vented, but my other leather jacket isn't and i got by with it all last summer. yes, you simply deal with the sweat. yes, gear is expensive. yes, it's worth it.

yes, your friends and everybody you meet up with will think you're crazy or weird at first. i kinda like that feeling i get from people, the wtf how can you do what you do kinda shock value of it all.

the irony of it is, over time, you seem to hear it less and less. i've only had like 3 people this year ask me if i was hot. last year it was like 30+.

lol @ assless chaps. i never understood the point in that. like it's hard to pull a pair of pants down when you have to do your business. well it can be easier said than done with track pants but eh, it's certainly do-able. not to mention there's no protection for your manhood. how do you explain to a woman that you lost your dick in a motorcycle accident because you thought i was more important to cover your legs than your balls?
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:19 PM   #16
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I'd love the protection of leather but won't spend the bucks on it because in this heat I know I wouldn't wear it. I think a bigger problem with the heat is not the sweat but the possibility of dehydration and heat stroke. I can sweat, that's fine. It's simply not safe or smart to defeat the body's natural way of cooling itself by suiting up in full leather. Indeed, it does get to hot to ride.
IMHO, while it does afford the best protection I think for me leather is to much. I mean really. I believe if I'm ever in a motorcycle accident (again) it will be more impact and less slide. Mesh or textile with good armor seems to be more important to me than the ability to slide along the pavement at 100mph. I don't push mine or the bikes limits, I cruise and if theres a wreck it's going to be someone turning left in front of me or rearending me or something like that, most likely in town at speeds under 40mph or so. My biggest problem will be broken bones and blunt force trauma, not lack of skin. I try to pick gear that fits my riding style and if I were young and riding rockets to the edge, I'd match that up with quality leather. But I'm older, wiser, and much more careful. I won't say I won't get a bit of rash should the worst happen. But if the worst does happen I'll have much bigger problems that a little rash.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:28 PM   #17
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it's not hard to bring along a couple gatorades or stop and buy one now and then.

you're simply justifying a lack of protection. sliding at 50 mph isn't much better than sliding at 100. it doesn't matter how hard you think you ride, ok? i know what you mean, but it simply doesn't justify your reasoning. old age and wisdom doesn't help you in an accident.
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Old 07-18-2010, 12:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSherpa197 View Post
it's not hard to bring along a couple gatorades or stop and buy one now and then.

you're simply justifying a lack of protection. sliding at 50 mph isn't much better than sliding at 100. it doesn't matter how hard you think you ride, ok? i know what you mean, but it simply doesn't justify your reasoning. old age and wisdom doesn't help you in an accident.
Theres someone driving past you in their car saying ''all that gear wont help that kid on the motorcycle if hes in a crash''.. Theres an SUV driving by that car saying ''that little thing will get crushed by my car''

Your on a **** bike!!!

If you atgatt nazi's are so worried about crashing, please get off your bikes and into a cage.

Dont get me wrong, gear is important. But having 2 grand in the latest most technologically advanced gear isn't going to do sh1t against the real threat.
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Old 07-18-2010, 02:50 PM   #19
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With all of the debating aside, I still think it is good data (the abrasion data) for people to use in making up their own minds, to help them decide what gear to buy. For us new riders (like me) I could wreck in any way you could probably imagine. My closest call so far has been instinctively jerking my head to avoid a small bird, while in a curve!

I'd at least want to know "how much better material X "could" protect my skin in a slide. Personally, I love the mesh, armored summer jacket I bought, but I will buy some leather for late fall, winter, and early spring. Hopefully I can come up with the cash by then.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:39 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSherpa197 View Post
it's not hard to bring along a couple gatorades or stop and buy one now and then.

you're simply justifying a lack of protection. sliding at 50 mph isn't much better than sliding at 100. it doesn't matter how hard you think you ride, ok? i know what you mean, but it simply doesn't justify your reasoning. old age and wisdom doesn't help you in an accident.
It certainly can help keep you out of one.
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Old 07-18-2010, 03:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronx View Post
Dont get me wrong, gear is important. But having 2 grand in the latest most technologically advanced gear isn't going to do sh1t against the real threat.
True to a point. It could literally save your skin in a minor accident but will prove worthless in a major crash.
Something folks seem to forget is in the real world of riding on the street riders involved crashes are usually dealing with other heavy and inmovable objects like cars, curbs, and walls. Some of these could likely be moving making impact much worse. One could even get run over, literally.
On a track, where leather is king in protecting ones dermis, the only objects riders have to fear running into are other bikes usually going in the same direction, and hay bales. Come off a machine at speed and that leather is going to allow you to keep your hide. Do that on the street and you are going to hit something bigger and harder than you, unless it hits you first, and your expensive leather is going to be at a disadvantage trying to keep you in good shape. Blunt force trauma and compound fractures are not something any gear is going to protect you from, not even leather.
I chose my gear based mainly on price. I want the best protection I can get for a reasonable to me price. In my minds eye leather is to expensive and I simply don't need it. It's a compromise I'm willing to live with.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:38 PM   #22
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you guys keep justifying riding without gear. call me a gear nazi, whatever. that's cool. but telling me it won't do me any good if i hit a car or solid object is complete BS. it will do it's job of keeping you in one piece, preventing worse bone breaking/ligament/tendon tearing, dislocation of limbs and digits. it can allow you to keep the blood in your body that you can lose during severe road rash. hard back and chest protectors can prevent spinal damage and chest bone breakage, which can pierce the lungs/heart/etc. it would suck to die with all your skin but a rib poking through your lungs caused them to fill with blood and you simply suffocate to death. wearing full gear can be the make or break point, it's not simply about abrasion resistance.

of course there are certain situations where it won't matter, but the same goes for you thinking old age and wisdom keeps you protected. admit it, it simply doesn't. at least wearing all the gear is taking a proactive stand, a personal insurance policy instead of just going with the 'whatever happens, happens' ideology.

two grand on latest technology? get real, i have less than $500 invested in all my gear. i don't exactly have a new Dainese airbag suit, ya know?

telling me to get in a cage if i'm scared of crashing....you really aren't acting your age, if you're as old and wise as you claim. i'm certainly not scared to go down, because i know what it feels like to go down when you're protected. if you want to run a belt sander all over you body willingly, that's fine. i don't care to know what that feels like.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:50 PM   #23
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Who really cares? If you want to wear gear fine, if you don't that's fine too. It's up to the person and they do not have to justify which they choose.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:53 PM   #24
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that's how i feel about it, in real life i never have anybody give me any **** about wearing full gear. it's only online. go figure?

in the same light, i never chew out the guys on my group rides for not wearing gear. ironically enough, they all start wearing more and more gear as they ride with me more often. coincidence? who knows.
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Old 07-18-2010, 07:59 PM   #25
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First, I never claimed to not wear gear. In fact I wear full gear, gloves to boots. I simply don't wear leather gear.
Second, assuming you were refering to me with the "acting your age" comment, I never told you to drive a cage.
Your choice of gear is fine by me, more power to ya. My choice is my own and you don't have to like it or agree with me. And getting all bent because I'm not inclined to agree with you is a better indication of your maturity level than my choice of gear is my own.
Besides, I'm not really disagreeing with you, just agreeing that gear is important on a different level.
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Old 07-18-2010, 08:03 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSherpa197 View Post
that's how i feel about it, in real life i never have anybody give me any **** about wearing full gear. it's only online. go figure?

in the same light, i never chew out the guys on my group rides for not wearing gear. ironically enough, they all start wearing more and more gear as they ride with me more often. coincidence? who knows.

This I like. I've heard many folks say " I should probably wear a helmet but I don't." They already know they should wear gear and have a certain amount of guilt about chosing not to I suppose. Then they start hanging with a guy who's got the balls to wear it full time and all of a sudden they feel like less of a person. "Heck, if he's tough enough to wear it I'm certainly as tough as he is" and they start wearing it too. Good way to get people into better habits.
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Old 07-18-2010, 09:03 PM   #27
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i totally wasn't referring to you, see bronx's post.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:23 PM   #28
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I had a thread earlier this year when a Harley guy asked me how I ''ride with all that crap on''.. I told him ''my sweat dries faster then my skin and bones heal''

I didn't give him an attitude that I'm a better/smarter/safer rider then him. nor did I tell him hes stupid for not wearing full gear.

Sometimes I don't wear any gear. If its hot as balls out and I'm driving through the city at 30mph, I'll go in shorts and a T.

That's my right to do that, and if it means I get some road rash if I fall.. Owell, that's the risk I take, just like the risk I take every time I get on my bike.
that does not give anyone the right to say they are smarter or safer then me.

After 300,000+ miles I would say I have the wisdom and experience to wear whatever I want on my bike without some internet warrior telling me I should do otherwise.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:15 PM   #29
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Bronx, I remember that thread and that statement. I like it, the sweat dries faster comment.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:53 AM   #30
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Thanks for the info!!!!! Here's to hoping that I don't die of heat stroke in the 120 degree weather plus full gear this summer
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HKshooter View Post
This I like. I've heard many folks say " I should probably wear a helmet but I don't."
I say that a lot. But more cause of low speed stuff as mentioned. I usually wear a jacket and helmet, but sometimes don't if I am going somewhere and will have to carry it. Meh, I have not had anyone say anything to me about gear when wearing all or when wearing none of it, it is my own decision and I like it that way.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:46 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamjustifyd View Post
ooouuuccchhh!!!!! aaauuugghhh!!!!! I couldn't even imagine rash to the bone!!!
You mean this?


Compelling reason to choose the best gear you can find! lol
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:57 PM   #33
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I think that would be a good one to link and describe instead of embedding. Kinda gruesome. Just my opinion.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:13 AM   #34
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It is good to see the abrasion chart again tho. I almost forgot about it.
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Old 04-05-2011, 02:13 PM   #35
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Yeah, plus there is no way that is road rash. There is no way he sat up and grinded down just one part of the body and didn't get a single scratch on the rest of his back/arms.

Try for the full story instead of scare tactics with something completely unrelated. Are you a liberal by any chance? Thought so.
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Old 04-05-2011, 02:27 PM   #36
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Oh no... not politics again
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
Yeah, plus there is no way that is road rash. There is no way he sat up and grinded down just one part of the body and didn't get a single scratch on the rest of his back/arms.
Actually, I posted it in reply to Justifyd's post. Why? Cause I am a sick **** who is a little more than twisted in the head. With a tude as well. I know that was no roadrash. Still, the reply (in my twistedly disturbed mind) fit her post.

Quote:
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Try for the full story instead of scare tactics with something completely unrelated. Are you a liberal by any chance? Thought so.
Who the hell is talking about scare tactics? If I wanted to scare people into using gear, I could find actual footage (vid and jpg) of actual crashes and the end result of said crashes.

Liberal? Where the hell you get that idea from? I am guessing that you are a conservative republican from the tone of the last portion of your reply.
I'm not liberal nor conservative. I am MYSELF. You want to place a label on me, then i recommend "@sshole, cause I can be one.
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Old 04-06-2011, 01:02 PM   #38
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Well in a thread about road rash, posting a picture of.. that... in reply to someone saying they cannot imagine rash to the bone seems like a scare tactic to me.

I know from your off topic posts that you are not a liberal, just seemed fitting to the situation. And no, I am not a Republican.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:34 PM   #39
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Think about the post I was quoting, and my reply....
Seriously, scroll back up.

She was saying a specific thing, and I was replying, in my own sarcastic sick dimented way, to her post. No one elses.
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Old 04-06-2011, 10:05 PM   #40
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Well now that... that is over....

I got my Draggin Jeans in the mail today.
Fit well. I got the relaxed fit (wanna be yo boy perhaps). Got the knee and hip protectors too.

They are comfy, and look like the Levi jeans i usually wear. Only weird think is the knee pads poking me when i walk around; because knee area is in different place standing vs sitting.

Hope i never have to find out if the Kevlar weave can do it's job.
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