The BOX!

ralphlong · 08-01-2012, 10:02 PM

I just finished doing the MSF Basic Riders Course for the second time. Had to do it As a requirement to becoming a MSF Rider Coach. I did the BRC some years ago, but they want you to do one shortly before you take the rider coach training.

Anyway, as lots of you know, part of the training is doing two uturns in a 20 x 60 foot box.

After the training, the coach asked people if they liked or hated the box. The comments were split.

So... Do YOU hate, or love the box? Do you see it as a challenge, or an enemy?

Ralph

sanford · 08-01-2012, 10:28 PM

Never done it, curious do riders use their own bike...since a smalller bike may be easier to handle at low speeds..

CaptCrashIdaho · 08-01-2012, 10:31 PM

The box is your friend! Fun!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGCgbEID83U

Good times...good times...

goalie · 08-01-2012, 11:41 PM

Love the box. It was fun.

From the folks I did it with, I think those that had "fun" had few problems compared to the others.

I think there were several riders who were good, but got a little freaked out just because they saw the lines on the ground. I think they would have had no problem if the lines were not there.

OldGuy · 08-02-2012, 06:47 AM

Hated it, could not do it without a foot touching the ground. Had
problems with the wide-tight weave as well. I would not have my
license if I had taken the RMV test.

OTD · 08-02-2012, 07:28 AM

No love or hate here, it serves it's purpose, it's not really that hard if you focus.

SpitefulHam · 08-02-2012, 08:31 AM

I wasn't particularly fond of it at the time, but I actually like making tight u-turns now. Go figure.

ralphlong · 08-02-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanford

Never done it, curious do riders use their own bike...since a smalller bike may be easier to handle at low speeds..

For the MSF Basic Riders Course, you usually use the schools bikes. Normally 125 or 250cc.

You can use your own bike if you want. Each school sets rules such as size limitations. In the class I took, one lady had her own 250 vstar, and another guy had a 750cc dual purpose.

sectorsight · 08-02-2012, 09:23 AM

Mixed feelings on the box. I like it because I thought it was one of the easiest parts of t he course. I was dreading it until I saw Cpt Crash's video. Honestly saved me a lot of frustration and I credit him for making it the most enjoyable event.
What i don't like about the box: It has almost nothing to do with safety. Unlike the other drills, IMO this is not something you NEED to know to ride safely.

ralphlong · 08-02-2012, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sectorsight

What i don't like about the box: It has almost nothing to do with safety. Unlike the other drills, IMO this is not something you NEED to know to ride safely.

You are right,and the MSF recognizes this. Thats why they put less emphasis on it during the class and during the evaluation. You can fail the box (as long as you do not drop the bike) and still pass the evaluation.

Ralph

sectorsight · 08-02-2012, 09:34 AM

I think the box is all about eye placement. I almost never had my head forward in the box, just look where you want to go...and there you are. i hardly ever used the brake or throttle either, it was mostly just clutch. I think I was in first gear the whole time, maybe second

ithelper · 08-02-2012, 12:48 PM

I watched Crash's video a few times the day before my class. It ended up being a breeze for me and I enjoyed it.

I have no qualms about making u-turns on the street now. Just look and go.

goalie · 08-02-2012, 12:52 PM

I think it is an important skill to be able to make tight maneuvers confidently. I'm not sure why you would think that skill doesn't have anything to do with safety?

EntropyFx · 08-02-2012, 12:52 PM

I've never dropped my 1300, but dropped that damn 200cc bike twice practicing the box (no problems during the test). Until I figured out that I was too damn tall and in order not to catch my knee on the handlebars with the tight turn (instantly taking me down), I had to **** my knees clear out to the side to get handlebar clearance. Plus it was raining, which didn't help.

sectorsight · 08-02-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goalie

I think it is an important skill to be able to make tight maneuvers confidently. I'm not sure why you would think that skill doesn't have anything to do with safety?

You've been forced to make a panic figure 8 in traffic?

Good skill to have, sure. But not needed in emergency situations

goalie · 08-02-2012, 12:56 PM

What if some dingleberry decides he has to make a U-turn due to road delays in front of him. If he or she cannnot execute an efficient U-turn, they may swing into the other traffic or dangers on the shoulder of the road.

Obviously, I cannot envision every scenario, but I don't want people riding who cannot manage that basic control of their bike. Do you?

sectorsight · 08-02-2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goalie

What if some dingleberry decides he has to make a U-turn due to road delays in front of him. If he or she cannnot execute an efficient U-turn, they may swing into the other traffic or dangers on the shoulder of the road.

Obviously, I cannot envision every scenario, but I don't want people riding who cannot manage that basic control of their bike. Do you?

I don't think he would be allowed to just turn into the opposite travel lane on whim. Wouldn't he have to grin and bear it and wait for a legal turn?

goalie · 08-02-2012, 01:49 PM

People get into trouble when they do stupid things. That's my point.

Better to minimize the potential for disaster.

Plus, there may be legit times when you need to make a tight U-turn also.

Badlands-4-2 · 08-02-2012, 02:32 PM

My son just took the MSF course this month. After he was done I went over to the parking lot where he took the class. I made him do several of the manouvers on the Ninja before I let him onto the street. He had an issue with the box on the Ninja. Issues with the friction zone. Anyway he challenged me to do it, and the old man was up to the challenge.

OldGuy · 08-02-2012, 02:33 PM

Why does it matter if you put a foot down on a slow tight U turn?
As long as you execute it without going down or crossing into
oncoming traffic. Also, I can't think where it would be necessary
in an emergency situation.

jonnid · 08-02-2012, 02:38 PM

I had no problems on the 250 in the BRC class, haven't tried it on my VTX. Not sure I'd have the same results. That being said, I liked it because I enjoy challenges.

LWRider · 08-07-2012, 05:10 PM

The *&*%! box vexed me. In our class you did the box and leaving it you entered an narrow "S" curve. I messed up the box, and headed through the "S" curve, which I did perfectly. Later I found out that the "S" curve had the same exact radius and the box turns.

The box simply psyched me out, especially with the instructors standing beside it watching me (which I think was my real problem). No one was standing near the "S" curve making notes and it was, as Crash would say, "Eazy Peazy."

Cheers,

Mike

cnote · 08-13-2012, 12:26 PM

I hated the box, I kept overshooting the lines lol...my instructor had told me worse case scenario from what he saw, that would be the only place I'd rack on points on the test (and the speed S curve)...well when it really counted (for the test & practice) I did the box perfectly!!!

CaptCrashIdaho · 08-13-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldGuy

Why does it matter if you put a foot down on a slow tight U turn?
As long as you execute it without going down or crossing into
oncoming traffic. Also, I can't think where it would be necessary
in an emergency situation.

No it's not necessary in an emergency situation but it's also about confidence and the ability to prove you can turn your freaking head.

Although...Start watching this one at 1:00 in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FrQ0FbN3Sk

As to putting yer foot down I have only one reason that you lose points for that and it goes:

"SNAP".

ralphlong · 08-13-2012, 09:31 PM

I am starting to love the box now. Been practicing out at a local MSF range 3-4 times a week for an hour a time. On both my 919 and the schools bikes.

When I do it right, which is 99% of the time now, it feels almost as good as sex. almost.

This has translated to much more confidence on the road. Now I am not hesitant to do a uturn where in the past I would have ridden through a parking lot or gas station to turn around.

I love it when a plan comes together.

Ralph

Preacher · 08-14-2012, 08:19 AM

I was in an odd position when I took the MSF course.

I started riding in 1978, been on the road on two wheels ever since, yet never had a license. Owned a dozen bikes over the years, have ridden a conservative 500K and never had a problem because of the lack.

Then my wife found out. It was funny, really... we were watching some show and one of the character said something about how hard the motorcycle test was. My wife asked me about it and I shrugged, said I had no idea, never took the test.

There followed that look. You know the look. The one your wife gives you when you screw up; the look that brooks no argument; the one that starts you thinking about flowers or wine, maybe eyeing the couch....

Anyway, to keep the peace I went and took the MSF at age 45, with 30 years of riding experience under my belt.

Lots of it was boring, some was fun, mostly it was just something I had to do. Best part was getting yelled at by the instructor for getting my knee down in the corners and going too fast

08-01-2012, 10:02 PM	#1
ralphlong Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Glendora, CA Posts: 1,363	The BOX! I just finished doing the MSF Basic Riders Course for the second time. Had to do it As a requirement to becoming a MSF Rider Coach. I did the BRC some years ago, but they want you to do one shortly before you take the rider coach training. Anyway, as lots of you know, part of the training is doing two uturns in a 20 x 60 foot box. After the training, the coach asked people if they liked or hated the box. The comments were split. So... Do YOU hate, or love the box? Do you see it as a challenge, or an enemy? Ralph

08-02-2012, 07:28 AM	#6
OTD Ole Hamburger Hands Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Norman OK Posts: 4,986	No love or hate here, it serves it's purpose, it's not really that hard if you focus. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-07-2012, 05:10 PM	#22
LWRider Challenged Mechanic Join Date: May 2009 Location: Lake Wales, FL Posts: 2,338	The &%! box vexed me. In our class you did the box and leaving it you entered an narrow "S" curve. I messed up the box, and headed through the "S" curve, which I did perfectly. Later I found out that the "S" curve had the same exact radius and the box turns. The box simply psyched me out, especially with the instructors standing beside it watching me (which I think was my real problem). No one was standing near the "S" curve making notes and it was, as Crash would say, "Eazy Peazy." Cheers, Mike __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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08-01-2012, 10:28 PM	#2
sanford Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 988	Never done it, curious do riders use their own bike...since a smalller bike may be easier to handle at low speeds..

08-01-2012, 11:41 PM	#4
goalie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fairfax, Virginia -- near Fair Oaks Mall Posts: 1,596	Love the box. It was fun. From the folks I did it with, I think those that had "fun" had few problems compared to the others. I think there were several riders who were good, but got a little freaked out just because they saw the lines on the ground. I think they would have had no problem if the lines were not there.

08-02-2012, 06:47 AM	#5
OldGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Cape Cod Posts: 272	Hated it, could not do it without a foot touching the ground. Had problems with the wide-tight weave as well. I would not have my license if I had taken the RMV test.

08-02-2012, 08:31 AM	#7
SpitefulHam Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Frederick, MD Posts: 320	I wasn't particularly fond of it at the time, but I actually like making tight u-turns now. Go figure.

08-02-2012, 09:23 AM	#9
sectorsight Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 256	Mixed feelings on the box. I like it because I thought it was one of the easiest parts of t he course. I was dreading it until I saw Cpt Crash's video. Honestly saved me a lot of frustration and I credit him for making it the most enjoyable event. What i don't like about the box: It has almost nothing to do with safety. Unlike the other drills, IMO this is not something you NEED to know to ride safely.

08-02-2012, 09:34 AM	#11
sectorsight Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 256	I think the box is all about eye placement. I almost never had my head forward in the box, just look where you want to go...and there you are. i hardly ever used the brake or throttle either, it was mostly just clutch. I think I was in first gear the whole time, maybe second

08-02-2012, 12:48 PM	#12
ithelper Master At Arms Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 104	I watched Crash's video a few times the day before my class. It ended up being a breeze for me and I enjoyed it. I have no qualms about making u-turns on the street now. Just look and go.

08-02-2012, 12:52 PM	#13
goalie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fairfax, Virginia -- near Fair Oaks Mall Posts: 1,596	I think it is an important skill to be able to make tight maneuvers confidently. I'm not sure why you would think that skill doesn't have anything to do with safety?

08-02-2012, 12:52 PM	#14
EntropyFx Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Central Iowa Posts: 217	I've never dropped my 1300, but dropped that damn 200cc bike twice practicing the box (no problems during the test). Until I figured out that I was too damn tall and in order not to catch my knee on the handlebars with the tight turn (instantly taking me down), I had to **** my knees clear out to the side to get handlebar clearance. Plus it was raining, which didn't help.

08-02-2012, 12:56 PM	#16
goalie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fairfax, Virginia -- near Fair Oaks Mall Posts: 1,596	What if some dingleberry decides he has to make a U-turn due to road delays in front of him. If he or she cannnot execute an efficient U-turn, they may swing into the other traffic or dangers on the shoulder of the road. Obviously, I cannot envision every scenario, but I don't want people riding who cannot manage that basic control of their bike. Do you?

08-02-2012, 01:49 PM	#18
goalie Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Fairfax, Virginia -- near Fair Oaks Mall Posts: 1,596	People get into trouble when they do stupid things. That's my point. Better to minimize the potential for disaster. Plus, there may be legit times when you need to make a tight U-turn also.

08-02-2012, 02:32 PM	#19
Badlands-4-2 Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: The Badlands of North Dakota Posts: 9,699	My son just took the MSF course this month. After he was done I went over to the parking lot where he took the class. I made him do several of the manouvers on the Ninja before I let him onto the street. He had an issue with the box on the Ninja. Issues with the friction zone. Anyway he challenged me to do it, and the old man was up to the challenge.

08-02-2012, 02:33 PM	#20
OldGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Cape Cod Posts: 272	Why does it matter if you put a foot down on a slow tight U turn? As long as you execute it without going down or crossing into oncoming traffic. Also, I can't think where it would be necessary in an emergency situation.

08-02-2012, 02:38 PM	#21
jonnid Verified Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Culpeper VA Posts: 33	I had no problems on the 250 in the BRC class, haven't tried it on my VTX. Not sure I'd have the same results. That being said, I liked it because I enjoy challenges.

08-13-2012, 12:26 PM	#23
cnote Registered Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 2	I hated the box, I kept overshooting the lines lol...my instructor had told me worse case scenario from what he saw, that would be the only place I'd rack on points on the test (and the speed S curve)...well when it really counted (for the test & practice) I did the box perfectly!!!

08-13-2012, 09:31 PM	#25
ralphlong Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Glendora, CA Posts: 1,363	I am starting to love the box now. Been practicing out at a local MSF range 3-4 times a week for an hour a time. On both my 919 and the schools bikes. When I do it right, which is 99% of the time now, it feels almost as good as sex. almost. This has translated to much more confidence on the road. Now I am not hesitant to do a uturn where in the past I would have ridden through a parking lot or gas station to turn around. I love it when a plan comes together. Ralph

08-14-2012, 08:19 AM	#26
Preacher Verified Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 40	I was in an odd position when I took the MSF course. I started riding in 1978, been on the road on two wheels ever since, yet never had a license. Owned a dozen bikes over the years, have ridden a conservative 500K and never had a problem because of the lack. Then my wife found out. It was funny, really... we were watching some show and one of the character said something about how hard the motorcycle test was. My wife asked me about it and I shrugged, said I had no idea, never took the test. There followed that look. You know the look. The one your wife gives you when you screw up; the look that brooks no argument; the one that starts you thinking about flowers or wine, maybe eyeing the couch.... Anyway, to keep the peace I went and took the MSF at age 45, with 30 years of riding experience under my belt. Lots of it was boring, some was fun, mostly it was just something I had to do. Best part was getting yelled at by the instructor for getting my knee down in the corners and going too fast