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Way to go, Maryland State Police Department

13K views 102 replies 39 participants last post by  internationalballer 
#1 ·
#3 ·
I could see the ACLU jumping on that one.

What a jackass. You acted like an idiot and you got recorded. What would cops do if they were in London and got caught doing this ****? They really think they'd get away with **** like that with all the surveillance cameras there? I hope they do get sued and that cop gets fired. Take responsibility for your actions.
 
#6 ·
sorry but tbh as the cop didn't announce he was a police officer and came out brandishing a handgun, he's lucky he didn't get shot himself as a potential bikejacker.
bearing in mind the value of the bike etc...
i see a suit here :thumbsup:
every now & then a cop gets caught on camera doing something like that - either kicking the **** out of someone, tazing someone needlessly etc.
here people have died in custody after over-enthusiastic arrests.
this cop wants teaching a lesson, firstly by losing his job.
let him guard supermarket trolleys for the rest of his working life - with his gun of course :/
 
#7 · (Edited)
I'm the first to call cops on it when they are in the wrong. I grew up in an area where the local county cops often abused their authority with teens (one ended up dead after putting in a complaint against some cops for excessive force in breaking up a party and injuring him- he choked himself to death and then hung himself according to the coroner report- suicide). Around here, the MD State Police are tough, no warnings only tickets, but they are very professional.

In this case, I'm not so sure the cop was wrong to have his gun out or not. Adreniline was running high- he had been chasing someone at near 100MPH speeds who tried to evade him for a while and was poping wheelies. He had every reason to think this guy was a bad guy and a danger. If you look at the videos (and you know anything about guns) he never pointed the gun at the motorcyclist. He had the gun at the ready position (pointed at the ground at a slight forward angle), not endangering the motorcyclist if the gun wasn't needed yet having it ready to swing quickly into action if it was. Had he actually pointed it at the guy I'd say he was definitely wrong. Since he didn't, and given the circumstances, I'd say not.

Oh, you guys should watch this news video:

http://www.abc2news.com/news/local/story/Motorcyclist-Charged-for-Recording/pfFRVeEePU6qFr5fAq-tlA.cspx

The unmarked car used is a model commonly used by state police (and I bet the tag which you can't see here is a giveaway, they usually are). The biggest thing that goes against the guy saying he didn't know the man was a cop was the fact that he was pursued by a marked car as well which pulled up behind him, it was only the unmarked car that cut off his escape route when they came to the light. Also, in MD the unmarked cars do have lights, I assume the cop was using his lights. Further, even if he was off duty as some have speculated elsewhere, in MD police do have arrest powers when off duty and even in their personal vehicle so long as they are in their jurisdiction (and being a state cop, the whole state is this cop's jurisdiction).

The gun was removed from the holster when the rider started backing up like he was going to try to get away (he started backing as soon as the cop blocked his way), and it was put away when the rider started to comply.

This is a rare situation for me, but I think the cop was 100% in the right. Maybe he could have identified himself sooner, and that may be a training issue, but with the likely lights on the unmarked car, it being a commonly used unmarked car for MD State Police, the fact that the tags would have likely been obvious MD state tags, and especially the marked State Police cruiser behind him, there is a high likelihood that the motorcyclist knew who this guy was and just wants to make himself seem right.


As for the charges, everyone around here knows it is illegal in MD to record any conversation (video, audio, in person, on the phone, etc) without the expressed consent of both parties (no "he saw the camera, he knew I was possibly taping", nope, the cop must be asked if it is OK to tape what he says and he must say yes). Anyone that says they don't know about the law should. It was very high profile just a few years ago- anyone remember the Monica Lewinsky scandal? Linda Tripp was charged under this law for secretly taping her phone conversations with Lewinsky.

Is the law a good thing? While it may be helpful for police oversight not to have it (though you can video tape their actions, you just can't have the audio recording without their consent). I like the privacy protection that I have knowing no one can legally tape me without telling me and then editing the tapes to make me look bad. No one can release some audio tape of me out of context to try to make me look bad. I think that is a good thing.
 
#10 ·
In this case, I'm not so sure the cop was wrong to have his gun out or not. Adreniline was running high- he had been chasing someone at near 100MPH speeds who tried to evade him for a while and was poping wheelies. He had every reason to think this guy was a bad guy and a danger. If you look at the videos (and you know anything about guns) he never pointed the gun at the motorcyclist. He had the gun at the ready position (pointed at the ground at a slight forward angle), not endangering the motorcyclist if the gun wasn't needed yet having it ready to swing quickly into action if it was. Had he actually pointed it at the guy I'd say he was definitely wrong. Since he didn't, and given the circumstances, I'd say not.
First off, the officer that pulled him over admitted that the 100 MPH was a visual estimate, NOT a radared speed. So, who knows? Unless we see video taken in the marked cruiser showing the speed (and the entire chase, to determine if he really was evading, which if he was he wouldn't have stopped on the off ramp!). As far as the gun, I've NEVER heard it being standard procedure to draw a pistol during a traffic stop.

The gun was removed from the holster when the rider started backing up like he was going to try to get away (he started backing as soon as the cop blocked his way), and it was put away when the rider started to comply.
That's just a BS argument, and would only hold water if the rider DID know it was an officer. Otherwise, I guarantee you that if you were cutoff by some unknown driver like that, you'd do the exact same thing.

As for the charges, everyone around here knows it is illegal in MD to record any conversation (video, audio, in person, on the phone, etc) without the expressed consent of both parties (no "he saw the camera, he knew I was possibly taping", nope, the cop must be asked if it is OK to tape what he says and he must say yes). Anyone that says they don't know about the law should. It was very high profile just a few years ago- anyone remember the Monica Lewinsky scandal? Linda Tripp was charged under this law for secretly taping her phone conversations with Lewinsky.
Although, according to MD law, consider the following:

"State courts interpreted laws to protect communications only when parties have a reasonable expectation of privacy." (http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=13492)

I hardly think a traffic stop in a high traffic area constitutes a reasonable expectation of privacy.
 
#11 ·
The first thing out of his mouth should've been "STATE POLICE", not "GET OFF THE MOTORCYCLE". I'd likely have shot him too not knowing who he was, brandishing a gun at me. He needs to review his tactics...he did everything backward and let his emotions get the best of him. There's nothing worse than a cop on a power trip.
 
#13 ·
I agree with the first part, if it was me I would have yelled "police, get off the motorcycle," the rest I disagree with. He was in an unmarked police vehicle, but in MD marked and unmarked cars have lights- we don't really see them in the video because they'd have been in the front grill, but they'd likely be on, and even if they weren't, the marked police cruiser pulling in behind him (after also making chase) should have been a clue to Mr. Graber (the motorcyclist).
 
#15 ·
Why should the rider have "known" it was a cop? The car looked like an Impala. There are tons of those out there. I can't imagine the rider looks at the plates on everyone to figure out if it is a cop or not. If they cop would have said "police!" right away, it would be a different story. If some guy cuts you off, gets out with a gun and tells you to get off the bike, what do you think is going to happen? Most people are thinking that the guy is going to steal the bike or kill them


The cop is 100% in the wrong. I hope the cop gets fired for his actions.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Why should the rider have "known" it was a cop?
Because he is in a car that is very commonly used as an unmarked car around here and unmarked police cars use very distinctive license plates so there would have been no question when the car was in front of him. Further, there was a marked cruiser there as well, just watch the video from the news broadcast.


Actually the cop CLAIMS that by visual he was doing 100mph and pulling wheelies. The biker just said he was speeding]
In the video you can clearly see him wheelie, darn straight he pulled a wheelie. Yes, the cop says that he had him going over 100mph. I don't know about other states, but in MD a cop following you and saying you went a certain speed is enough for a judge to uphold a ticket. The video he posted also clearly shows him going much faster than traffic (even if you don't want to trust what you see on his speedometer), and trust me, MD traffic isn't exactly slow moving (when it is moving).

Cops that dress in disguise and drive unmarked vehicles risk their own lives when they produce a weapon.
So you think undercover and unmarked police should be put at risk, that they are wrong for being unmarked or undercover? Wow.

Now, if you want to argue whether unmarked cars should be used for traffic stops, we'll probably agree. I think it is a bad policy (how do I know who you are, at least until you present a badge). However, we aren't debating policy here, but the policeman's actions. In MD it is policy to use unmarked cars and un-uniformed cops for traffic duties. The cop was doing his job, and doing it correctly.

Also, he looks backwards in the video and only sees the unmarked car with no lights on at all
Watch the news broadcast, they show some of his video. If you somehow missed it on his video, you'll clearly see it on the news broadcast (they point it out if you do miss it), the marked police cruiser is clearly there (around 2:27 on the broadcast).

The fact is that he even turned himself in over the incident because he knew he ****ed up and got caught.
He was ticketed for speeding. Then he posted his illegal video and got a call from his mom that the cops were there looking for him.

Departments allow for off-duty officers to have arrest powers, but they're also much more strict on the use of those powers when the officer is out of uniform.
He wasn't off duty, he was unmarked, big difference (actually, in MD it isn't that big- off duty officers have full police powers, not that it matters since he wasn't off duty, he was unmarked).

He should NOT have pulled a gun in that situation.
Why not? He was at the ready position, it wasn't pointed at anyone. He had every reason to think something was about to happen- this guy led the police on a chase at insane speeds and was backing up (to get away, to put distance between him and the cop to run him over, to put distance between them to buy time to draw, no way of knowing). The guy had shown reckless disregard to his own safety and that of everyone on that road. He showed that he was potentially dangerous and possibly not thinking clearly. The cop then put it away when everything was clearly under control. I'm not so willing to say the cop shouldn't have drawn.

The cop took it wayyy to far trying to arrest him for something else later
He recorded the audio of the encounter (illegal in MD without the expressed consent of the other party) and then posted it very publically on You Tube, that is the only reason he was arrested (not some cop trying to "get" him, he was actually let off quite easy at the scene- that kind of driving he could have lost his license and been taken to jail, and he was ticketed and let go). The video would have been OK if he released it without sound. If I taped you without your consent (audio, video is OK) and you complained to the authorities I'd be arrested- MD takes that law very seriously.

Why do you think they have to knock and announce who they are before serving a warrant (arrest or search)?
Not true at all. "No Knock" warrants are actually quite common (and a terrible idea)- look them up.



Now, I think I want to bow out of this discussion. I grew up in Columbia MD. The local police there are terrible. I grew up in an upper middle-class home in an upper middle-class community (i.e. I shouldn't draw attention), I was always law abiding. Yet due to the hostility of Howard County police to people in their mid teens through upper 20s I grew up mistrusting and even fearing the police (one local teen back in the 80's when I was in high school was found dead after filing an excessive force complaint). Finding myself on the cop's side here (since it appears to me that he did nothing wrong) is actually a rather uncomfortable position. I know the police have a lot of latitude to abuse their positions, I've seen it, but I don't think that is what happened here.
 
#19 ·
Cops that dress in disguise and drive unmarked vehicles risk their own lives when they produce a weapon. Just saying "State Police" when a rider is wearing earplugs or thinks the disguised cop is just a drug dealer trying one on might not save this cops life the next time. Very risky behaviour.
 
#21 ·
He could have it set to Kph too... that'd only be 88-89mph.. which is similar to the speeding ticket he got..

The fact is that he even turned himself in over the incident because he knew he ****ed up and got caught. The cop took it wayyy to far trying to arrest him for something else later and interfering with not only his life but that of his family who had nothing to do with the incident.

He should NOT have pulled a gun in that situation. I'm sure there's a department policy about it too. Why do you think they have to knock and announce who they are before serving a warrant (arrest or search)? For the safety of the officer and occupants. Departments allow for off-duty officers to have arrest powers, but they're also much more strict on the use of those powers when the officer is out of uniform.

The fact that he left out the bit about drawing his weapon from his report is a dead giveaway he knew he shouldn't have done it. At the least he should be in trouble for leaving out information in his report.
 
#22 ·
He could have it set to Kph too... that'd only be 88-89mph.. which is similar to the speeding ticket he got..
Not really. In other parts of the video (the parts where he's not passing other vehicles like they are going backwards or squeezing in with two feet to spare) the speedo clearly says 60-75, which makes sense given the conditions and traffic, in MPH. When he passes the marked cop car he suddenly backs it off to 60. If he was set for KPH, he'd have dropped it to 40 MPH? I don't think so. And he did pull a wheelie.

I don't argue whether to cop's actions were completely right or wrong. Maybe the strategy for dealing with squids showboating on the highway is to box them in with no lights to reduce the chances they'll take off when you light them up. I don't know. Seems wrong to me, just like the wiretapping charge seems a little wierd, but maybe there's precedent.

The one thing I know for sure from the video is that this guy was putting many lives in danger so he could videotape himself being a moron for his buddies. If he has to deal with a cop who's a little more ****ed than usual, I don't think I have a problem with that. The video on the blog doesn't tell half the story, as usual.

Wonko
 
#24 ·
I agree with Wonko, this guy's an idiot! And he KNEW it was a cop! He just blew by the primered/blue 2 door car and then suddenly slowed down allowing the car to catch back up as he passed the unmarked sitting in the median strip at 1:07. Then the only time he ever looks back is to see if he's being followed after he exits up the ramp.
The cop shouldn't have pulled his gun. I think we all agree on that. But don't make excuses for this idiot!
 
#25 ·
Quote:
"Cops that dress in disguise and drive unmarked vehicles risk their own lives when they produce a weapon. "

"So you think undercover and unmarked police should be put at risk, that they are wrong for being unmarked or undercover? Wow."

I didn't say that. In fact I think they SHOULDN'T be put at risk. Unnecesary use of disguise and unmarked cars is ALWAYS a risk. It might be department policy but in a situation like this it will always be safer to use a uniformed officer in a police cruiser. Department policy does not make it the best way to do things.

It shouldn't be unlawful for a person to operate a dashcam in public either. If that's illegal then we ae getting too close to a police state - especially when you consider the officers subsequent actions.
 
#26 ·
I'm glad I misread that. Long day at work. It sounds like we are basically in agreement then.

As for the recording, it isn't that he broke the law recording the officer, it would have been against the law if he recorded you or me without our permission as well (and only the audio makes it illegal, not the video). I'm not sure it is a bad idea- I'd hate to think people could record something I say and release it out of context or worse, edit it, to make me look bad. I'm a teacher, and my public reputation could mean the difference between keeping or losing my job. On the other hand, I don't think it should be a felony and he shouldn't be looking at the possibility of 10 years or more of jail time.
 
#30 · (Edited)
well he should definately get ticket for rideing like an idiot but I know that in Ohio it's against the law for police, fire or ems to drive 10 mph over the speed limit without lights and sirens, not sure about anywhere else. mybee he should have just taken the ticket and dropped it :confused:

Oh and like smooth said cop should have had badge out also to help identify himself, how many of us are going to belive someone just because they say so?
 
#31 ·
I disagree with the pulling of the gun and also of the additional charges and searches after the video was posted. There was no reason at all to do a search fo his parents house.

He should have beebn arrested on the spot and had his bike impounded for being a dumbass though.
 
#32 ·
You have the legal right to shoot photos/video of anyone at anytime. The general rule is "If anyone can see it, you can shoot it"....the only exceptions are federally restricted areas (such as military bases), nuclear power facilities, and when someone has a reasonable expectation of privacy, e.g. peeping toms and such.

Absent a specific legal prohibition
such as a statute or ordinance, you are
legally entitled to take photographs. Now there are places that have ordanances preventing photography...New York for example has ordanances that prohibit you from photographing bridges.

Despite misconceptions to the contrary,
the following subjects can almost always be photographed lawfully from public places:
accident and fire scenes
children
celebrities
bridges and other infrastructure
residential and commercial buildings
industrial facilities and public utilities
transportation facilities (e.g., airports)
Superfund sites
criminal activities
law enforcement officers

Law enforcement officials similarly cannot confiscate your equipment without a court order or unless they
are placing you under arrest. Neither can they destroy your property — and that includes deleting images or exposing film — without a court’s permission.

Now as far as Maryland goes....MD has a law called the "single-party consent" law. Which generally states that you cannot legally record voice without consent of all parties involved. BUT....this does not apply to plain view video.
 
#37 ·
That's a much better screenshot..

Directly from the Maryland State Patrol website:
Can a Trooper stop me if he is driving an unmarked car?
Yes. Police vehicles must activate a siren to be an emergency vehicle and may or may not display red or blue lights. Most unmarked Maryland State Police vehicles display at least one blue flashing light. If you feel uncomfortable pulling over, acknowledge to the vehicle that you are aware that they are trying to pull you over by waving and slow down. Drive to a well lit area where people are. If you have a cell phone dial #77 and this will connect you with the nearest Maryland State Police Barrack. Advise the dispatcher that you are uncomfortable with the situation and the dispatcher will assist you.
If he doesn't have a siren on, he is not authorized to pull anyone over, on duty or not.
 
#39 ·
That's a much better screenshot..

Directly from the Maryland State Patrol website:


If he doesn't have a siren on, he is not authorized to pull anyone over, on duty or not.
I wonder that status of the marked squad behind and if there is a dash cam video somewhere.

I agree the off duty had no reason stopping the car unmarked with out a siren/light.....but I also wonder if that squad behind him was also pulling him over/in pursuit at the same time. Not sure as I havent watched the longer video as Im on a crappy PC at the moment.
 
#40 ·
I've watched the longer version with no sound, haven't found the one with audio. I would not have noticed a squad car rolling up behind me though after watching the first cop jump out with his gun drawn and yelling at me after he cut me off like that.

But if the guy really wanted to, he could have gotten the dash cam of the other officer's patrol car with the help of an attorney, wouldn't be hard. This all assuming that he actually turned on his siren. As I understand it the dash cam doesn't save anything from more than 10 seconds before the siren is turned on.
 
#46 ·
As I understand it the dash cam doesn't save anything from more than 10 seconds before the siren is turned on.
Again, varies. Its set per dept or even officer. In our dept its the officers choice if he even wants a dash came....only 1 of 5 do. That one sets his up how he pleases - the minute you activate lights or siren it save the previous 3 minutes - it works like a DVR always recording.
 
#45 ·
That's the only reason they arrested the guy.

It's a long stretch to call posting of the video "wiretapping" since it's been long established that without reasonable expectation of privacy, people can be recorded. The arrest, charges, and search were acts of payback by the authorities plain and simple. The government should be in the business of public safety, not serving up revenge. Is this prosecution really a worthwhile use of tax dollars?
 
#53 ·
OK, this kind of stuff I can agree with 100%. A lot of police policies are stupid. Unmarked cars for traffic control isn't a good idea IMHO. Cops in "civilian" clothes (cops aren't military- they are civilians too- I hate the "cops and civilians" differentiation) makes sense for some things (undercover work, investigative/detective work), but for traffic control or serving warrants probably isn't such a good idea (again, how do we know who they really are).

If I were on that bike and a angry man in street clothes jumps out of his car pointing a gun at me telling me to get off my bike... someone is getting shot.
That's where I disagree. There would have been little question this was a cop to most Marylanders. The first tell-tale sign was there was a marked police cruiser following behind as well which pulled up roughly the same time the plain clothes guy jumped out of his car. Also, around here the rear plates on unmarked cars are pretty distinctive- he may have had a question about which agency the guy was from, but that he was government and probably a cop would have been very obvious to anyone who isn't new to MD. He might not have seen them when the car was still following behind him but I doubt he would have missed the plates when the car pulled in front of him.
 
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