general noob question on stronger bike

[sanford]

If we are comfortable riding starter bikes..was just wondering would a logical
next cc size bike..would it be less dangerous,more dangerous or same compared to our riding ability..

I'm sure there are so many factors in the equation but maybe the riders who transitioned to bigger bike's will have a fairly good view on it, thank-you for
a great bike forum...

[distantThunder]

sanford

once you get really comfortable on a bike ... it's not a problem to trade up to a larger one. I would think that by the time you have put 5000-10,000 miles on a bike you would know it pretty well. I suggest that you get that amount of experience before going to a more powerful road bike.

BTW, since you explained the picture showing that traffic situation - where the guy merged into the same lane as you. That's pretty unusual, and a really BAD piece of driving by a cage. If they'd done that to me ... I would have been pretty pi**ed off myself.

good luck!
dT

[primalmu]

As a general rule I say most new riders can start on a 750-800cc cruiser, so as a step up from your Rebel, power-wise, just about any cruiser would be suitable, but with one caveat: you must be comfortable with the weight of the bike. Cruisers are big and heavy, and often times that is the reason they aren't good for new riders, not the engine's power.

[Kiwi Steve]

By law here in New Zealand learner riders can currently only ride a 250 cc bike - this is changing in October, learners will then be able to ride bikes less than 660 cc with a limited power to weight ratio. You move from a learners license to a restricted license and on to a full license with various restrictions on when and how you are able to ride.

I started riding at 61 years old, and rode my Hyosung GT250 for 24,000 km - 15,000 miles - over 20 months. When I felt confident that I'd reached the limits of the 250 bike, I bought a Suzuki Boulevard M50 (800 cc), this was about 100 kg (200 lb) heavier than my learner bike. But it's a bike I can handle now with confidence, and suddenly I'm able to pass other vehicles if needed.

From my own experience I'd recommend new riders start on a smaller bike, maybe 400 to 500 cc max. I enjoyed riding my 250 cc cruiser, when riding in groups I was able to keep up at cruising speeds of 110 to 120 km/hr (65 to 70 mph). Move up to a bigger bike, maybe 750 to 900 cc once you feel you've reached the limits of your first bike. But that won't happen, some people will just buy metric sports bikes and large cruisers as their first bike and suffer the consequences.

[Goliath616]

the problem with that here Kiwi, is there are very few 400-500cc bikes (cruisers) to be had that are in decent shape....they stopped making )or at least importing) anything smaller than 500cc (other than the 250's) several years ago.....

Sanford, I started on a Suzuki Boulevard C50 (805cc) and rode it for 4 years, traded it in back in April with 13,000 miles on it (I didn't ride much last year due to bad health) on a Yamaha Road Star 1700cc.....the biggest difference I noticed was the power from the 805cc to the 1700cc....the Yamaha is heavier, but still has that good low center of gravity so it's not that noticeable...

then again, I do weigh in at just over 400 lbs. myself lol

[MirrorrorriM]

I started on a 350lb 250cc motorcycle and moved up to a 700lb 1100cc bike. It was quite a difference that took some getting used to. It's dangerous if you don't have an appreciation for the added power that you are upgrading to. In a higher power bike, a slight rotation of the wrist in a turn while in a low gear is the only thing it takes for a bike to get away from you, where a less powerful bike might be a little more forgiving.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by Goliath616

the problem with that here Kiwi, is there are very few 400-500cc bikes (cruisers) to be had that are in decent shape....they stopped making )or at least importing) anything smaller than 500cc (other than the 250's) several years ago.....

Sanford, I started on a Suzuki Boulevard C50 (805cc) and rode it for 4 years, traded it in back in April with 13,000 miles on it (I didn't ride much last year due to bad health) on a Yamaha Road Star 1700cc.....the biggest difference I noticed was the power from the 805cc to the 1700cc....the Yamaha is heavier, but still has that good low center of gravity so it's not that noticeable...

then again, I do weigh in at just over 400 lbs. myself lol

Thanks guys for replies have read all of them.. Goiliath well that explains it
At moment may upgrade to a moderate higher cc if things go well, lot of practical insight from the posters on the forum.. it has helped me decide somewhat for sure.

[Bede5man]

Yeah, what's up with no 450-550 cc bikes? They used to make a whole range of models back in the day...when a 750 four-cylinder was "standard"...

What happened?

And what's with this V-Twin Harley look-alike stuff from the Japanese folks???

[ken45]

I don't think cc displacement is a good measure either for new riders or someone moving up. Performance, weight, saddle height, weight distribution are all important parts of the equation.

I have a 750 Nighthawk that would be fine for a new rider or someone moving up. OTOH, a 600 cc sportbike is a totally different animal.

Back when I started riding (1985), the options pretty much were 400 or 750 cc. I don't think they even made 250cc street bikes back then. I started with a 400 and within 3 months bought the CB750K. A better match for my size and I never got in trouble with that bike over the 17 years that I had it.

[Biker Dash]

Originally Posted by Bede5man

Yeah, what's up with no 450-550 cc bikes? They used to make a whole range of models back in the day...when a 750 four-cylinder was "standard"...

What happened?

And what's with this V-Twin Harley look-alike stuff from the Japanese folks???

*sniff.... sniff...*
I smell a hater

Have you looked at the 500 Ninja Bede? or the GS500 from Suzuki?

As to why there are so many "V-Twin Harley look-alikes" on the road, it is because there is a large population of riders in the US who happen to prefer the cruiser style bike, and to a lot of those, they prefer a V-twin design. The motorcycle companies see what the riders are wanting, and they provide.

[sanford]

Had a long bike ride today, weather good and no idiot cagers to ruin it.. those or the type of days I enjoy

[Biker Dash]

Originally Posted by sanford

Had a long bike ride today, weather good and no idiot cagers to ruin it.. those or the type of days I enjoy

Now THESE are the days to cherish!

[ken45]

Originally Posted by Animedevildog

Now THESE are the days to cherish!

Oh heck, retire and move to a rural area. Plenty of nice days and cages can almost be rare Many of the roads I ride I see less than one cage per mile and they rarely misbehave.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by ken45

Oh heck, retire and move to a rural area. Plenty of nice days and cages can almost be rare Many of the roads I ride I see less than one cage per mile and they rarely misbehave.

[zmago]

Originally Posted by Bede5man

And what's with this V-Twin Harley look-alike stuff from the Japanese folks???

It's just a very effective design. It's been my experience that the V-twin engine design is good for relaxed, comfortable riding. It makes lots of power at low and medium r.p.m., while the inline four's power increases with revs. Italian manufacturers put a different slant and spin on the V-twin; Moto Guzzis don't look like Harleys, but they sound and feel pretty similar.

[mellowmarshall]

My very novice opinion is that a cruiser of ANY size is fine if you're an experienced rider. You will notice problems related to maneuvering at low speed depending on the weight, but power is not really an issue. For comparison purposes, the Victory Judge (~1750cc) pulls about like a SV650 (a detuned "sport 6" engine). I jumped from 250cc ninja to 1300cc cruiser and while the torque is fun, I can go wide open on the throttle without any worry that I'm about to lose the bike.

The Vtx's power isn't dangerous, I'm more worried about setting the bike down in a parking lot and looking like an idiot.

[Biker Dash]

Originally Posted by zmago

It's just a very effective design. It's been my experience that the V-twin engine design is good for relaxed, comfortable riding. It makes lots of power at low and medium r.p.m., while the inline four's power increases with revs. Italian manufacturers put a different slant and spin on the V-twin; Moto Guzzis don't look like Harleys, but they sound and feel pretty similar.

Another slant on the V-twin is the 90deg ones you see in Ducatis, as well as a a couple different Hondas and some Suzukis. Those engines are generally quite smooth running and can deliver BOTH low end grunt and upper end power. (as an excellent example, look at the specs on the Duc 1199)

[Woohoo]

Originally Posted by Bede5man

Yeah, what's up with no 450-550 cc bikes? They used to make a whole range of models back in the day...when a 750 four-cylinder was "standard"...

What happened?

"Bigger is better" is an essential truth in American marketing. Whether we need it or not, everything is built bigger over time. (As an example, the average square footage of a house in 1973 was 1,660 square feet. Now the average is 2,480.)

Sometimes this is awesome. Experienced riders have never had better bikes, as far as technology and power go. Sometimes, it sucks. Like how it has pushed most of the small displacement bikes out of the market.

And what's with this V-Twin Harley look-alike stuff from the Japanese folks???

That's what sells here. Go poke around the European websites of the same Japanese companies and you'll only see a few cruiser models. I suspect part of this has to do with the physical layout of the United States. It's big and there's more flat asphalt to cruise on. Europe is more urbanized, tighter and more suited to non-cruiser type bikes. I also have a hunch that emotion and the stereotyped image of what a "biker" should look like plays into how bikes are purchased in this country far more than in others.

[ken45]

Originally Posted by Woohoo

"Bigger is better" is an essential truth in American marketing. Whether we need it or not, everything is built bigger over time.

You are probably right on that, but then where did these 250cc bikes come from? I don't recall anything that size or smaller 25 years ago. IIRC 400cc was the small size back then.

Ken

[Woohoo]

Originally Posted by ken45

You are probably right on that, but then where did these 250cc bikes come from? I don't recall anything that size or smaller 25 years ago. IIRC 400cc was the small size back then.

Ken

25 years ago we'd already started the upward trend. Try going back a little farther. In the 60's, 70's and even into the 80's, 125-250cc bikes were pretty popular. Bikes like the Honda CB125 and CB175. In 1971, Suzuki called their 500cc model "Titan". Even Harley Davidson offered 150cc-350cc bikes through their Aermacchi subsidiary. It's only recently that small bikes have made a comeback in the US.

[ken45]

Originally Posted by mellowmarshall

My very novice opinion is that a cruiser of ANY size is fine if you're an experienced rider. You will notice problems related to maneuvering at low speed depending on the weight, but power is not really an issue. For comparison purposes, the Victory Judge (~1750cc) pulls about like a SV650 (a detuned "sport 6" engine). I jumped from 250cc ninja to 1300cc cruiser and while the torque is fun, I can go wide open on the throttle without any worry that I'm about to lose the bike.

The Vtx's power isn't dangerous, I'm more worried about setting the bike down in a parking lot and looking like an idiot.

Although I am an experienced rider, I never got comfortable with the weight, especially weight carried high, of the Goldwing. Wonderful bike on the highway but I traded it for an FJR1300.

I did have the Goldwing go over a few times when stopped. Fortunately the design is such that zero damage occurs.

Ken

[mattjkuhn]

Originally Posted by ken45

You are probably right on that, but then where did these 250cc bikes come from? I don't recall anything that size or smaller 25 years ago. IIRC 400cc was the small size back then.

Ken

Anything smaller than that would be an enduro. I still ride a Honda CB125s in town for the gas mileage.

[kat569]

I'm not a cruiser gal. I rode the 250cc cruisers in the MSF class (Suzuki GZ-250, nice little bike but not designed for more than a short jaunt around town) and even went to the dealer with that exact bike in mind for my first one. Walked out the proud owner of a Ninja 500R. LOL I sat the GZ250 in the dealership, and felt a twinge in my lower back when I assumed riding position - sat a Suzuki GS500 and was on tiptoes; moved over to the Ninja 250 and felt like it was TOO small. Sat the 500R - and fell in love. Perfect bike for me. More powerful and more comfortable than the Ninja 250, but not so powerful that I'd feel overwhelmed by it. Better riding position than bigger bikes, less forward lean. It's been my bike for just over two years now, and just turned 1,800 miles on it (it's been parked all month though, not legal until I can pay taxes and inspection fee). I'm just now at the point where I'm THINKING of stepping up to the Ninja 650 - the new ones are to DIE for (**drools**) but I just can't afford it yet. That's the only thing stopping me from upgrading right now.

Cruisers are generally more forgiving and there is less variance in power, so you can easily step up to something bigger as you gain experience. Sport bikes are not the same - very few people can go from a little 250 up to a Hayabusa (1,300 cc's, if I remember correctly) without a LOT of difficulty - they pretty much have to learn a whole new way of handling the bike. So with sport bikes, I'd say smaller steps up are better. That's why, when I do step up, it won't be any higher than a 650.

[sanford]

Originally Posted by kat569

I'm not a cruiser gal. I rode the 250cc cruisers in the MSF class (Suzuki GZ-250, nice little bike but not designed for more than a short jaunt around town) and even went to the dealer with that exact bike in mind for my first one. Walked out the proud owner of a Ninja 500R. LOL I sat the GZ250 in the dealership, and felt a twinge in my lower back when I assumed riding position - sat a Suzuki GS500 and was on tiptoes; moved over to the Ninja 250 and felt like it was TOO small. Sat the 500R - and fell in love. Perfect bike for me. More powerful and more comfortable than the Ninja 250, but not so powerful that I'd feel overwhelmed by it. Better riding position than bigger bikes, less forward lean. It's been my bike for just over two years now, and just turned 1,800 miles on it (it's been parked all month though, not legal until I can pay taxes and inspection fee). I'm just now at the point where I'm THINKING of stepping up to the Ninja 650 - the new ones are to DIE for (**drools**) but I just can't afford it yet. That's the only thing stopping me from upgrading right now.

Cruisers are generally more forgiving and there is less variance in power, so you can easily step up to something bigger as you gain experience. Sport bikes are not the same - very few people can go from a little 250 up to a Hayabusa (1,300 cc's, if I remember correctly) without a LOT of difficulty - they pretty much have to learn a whole new way of handling the bike. So with sport bikes, I'd say smaller steps up are better. That's why, when I do step up, it won't be any higher than a 650.

Thanks, not sure really what may get, but really do have a soft spot for Sportsters, but may be too much, was thinking of the 883.. just window shopping, or may as your post suggests may stay with a mid range cc cruiser, maybe next season will post a picture if things work out.. I love the 250cc cruiser but it is easy to outgrow...

[kat569]

Originally Posted by sanford

Thanks, not sure really what may get, but really do have a soft spot for Sportsters, but may be too much, was thinking of the 883.. just window shopping, or may as your post suggests may stay with a mid range cc cruiser, maybe next season will post a picture if things work out.. I love the 250cc cruiser but it is easy to outgrow...

I know a lady locally who has a Sportster. She's been riding a year, it's her first bike and she loves it. Another lady, two years under her belt now, rides an 850-cc cruiser, can't remember the model but can find out. I'm in the heart of cruiser territory here - for every sport bike there are probably about a hundred cruisers (and maybe twenty touring bikes for every sport bike). A lot of people start out on larger cruisers, 800+, and have no problems with them. My one friend on the 850-cc one, she can't make tight turns yet, but is fine otherwise.

[bglaze]

Go with a Shadow/Savage 650/750cc

[krakhed]

Another option, check with your Harley Dealer. They might have a Sportster 883 you can check out. Or 4

If I remember correctly there is a difference in the seating position between that and my Phantom and how I felt when I planted my feet down.

I really....i mean REALLY liked the Harley but when I finally got around to sitting on the Phantom and everything it was like I heard the "click!" sound.

Good luck!

[zmago]

I sat on several different Sportsters at the shop where I bought mine, and they were all different (seat height, bars, etc.). The 883 my friend rented looks like my XR1200, but they feel very different when you sit on them.

[Biker Dash]

Originally Posted by zmago

I sat on several different Sportsters at the shop where I bought mine, and they were all different (seat height, bars, etc.). The 883 my friend rented looks like my XR1200, but they feel very different when you sit on them.

Heck, Sportsters are ALL fine bikes! I would have no hesitation of owning one, assuming I could afford one. (I still lust for that XR-1200)

[zmago]

Yes, I was really curious to try the 883, as the XR1200 is the first and only Sportster I'd ridden. It was really nice. It doesn't accelerate as hard as the XR, it vibrates a little less, and the seat is slightly lower, but it sounded and felt very similar, and was quite happy doing 150 km/hr on the highway. I'd be perfectly satisfied with an 883.