Considering first bike, ninja 650r or 250.

[Eshkeemo]

Hi everyone, I've been jumping around for my ideas for a bike for the past couple years and I really want to go in, and these are the two bikes I'm considering.

I'm 19. No riding experience. Only brief "to the end of the road and back" on my friends Ninja ZX6R.

Kawasaki Ninja 650R

or

Kawasaki Ninja 250R

I understand this is my first bike, so I chose these two instead of the 600 so I don't hit the power band on the highway and wheelie like an idiot. While helmets aren't required in IL, I don't plan on going out the door without one or my gear, which will be listed later on.

Reasons for 250:

Cheap
Great Mileage
Insurance
Maneuverability
Resale Value
2013 models are very sexy.

Cons:

Highway riding seems to be higher rev in the gears than on the 650, and I do highway riding often enough to where I wouldn't want to risk damaging the engine. Usually taking trips to chicago (roughly a 5 hour highway drive) maybe once every two weeks.

Reasons for 650:

Still moderately priced for new
45+ mpg, roughly.
Still great handling
Smooth torque throughout RPM's
More than enough power for anything I'll ever use
Can be fun if one day I decide to go on to a track/mountain and try and develop my skills.
2012 models are sexy too.

I travel quite a bit, and need a comfortable machine that can provide me with power for the highway.

Cons of 650:

I have no riding experience, at all. I'm very wary of getting a bike with to much power and end up high siding myself or letting it rocket from under me and hurting either myself or someone else. Despite the smoother pull, I'm still not sure.

The reason I considered the 650 instead of the 250 is once I buy something, I feel it's mine, and I love and keep it. I hated even selling my Silverado 1500 (2009) because the mileage was so bad, just because nothing was wrong with it. I currently drive an Infiniti G35 (2003), and it was my first car. I received it in september of 2011 with 40k from my grandpa. I learned very quickly to respect the power because it could result in something bad happening very fast (he forgot to mention that he got a mod turbo v6 in it).

I am trying my best not to be a "squid", I've already got ALL my gear picked out, and have passed the beginner portion of the MSF course and have my motorcycle endorsement.

For reference, my gear:

Helmet - Shoei RF-1100 Merciless
Jacket - Firstgear Mesh Tex Jacket
Armor - Icon Stryker Rig / Spidi Defender Armor
Pants - Dainese D1 Kevlar Jeans
Gloves - Oakley Military issue combat gloves

I understand that with respect it's possible for a person to start out on a bigger bike and still do quite well, but I want to reduce as much risk as I can. I want to be riding for a long time.

Also, I do race the Infiniti, and hope to one day be able to do so on motorcycles (with proper gear, on a commissioned course, after having at least 1-2 riding seasons under my belt)

Any opinions are greatly appreciated, thank you for reading.

[Eshkeemo]

There's no "edit" option for me unfortunately, so please excuse this double post.

I plan to mod the bike for safety, as well as personal taste.

I'm going to ask my dealer for Sliders before it's even shipped to my house (still deciding between engine mounted or frame mounted). I also plan to add a louder muffler (still deciding), rim tape, and LED headlights for added brightness.

[goalie]

My only opinion is that I applaud you for the obvious tiime and effort you've put into this. Your post makes several good points, all of which can be the basis for your ultimate decision.

I would be more inclined toward the 650. The presence of a more experienced rider with you when you first start riding the highways, etc. will make the world of difference.

Good Luck!

[Gunner75]

Since this is your first ride and you have no experience i would suggest finding the closest Motorcycle Safety Course give by the MSF. It will give you the skills you need and show you how to develop the skills later. I personally ride a 650. its my first sport bike and i love it. but i bit off more then i should have and laid it down in some curves. The 250 will do just fine on the highway even in high revs. Bikes are designed to rev had higher RPMs then cars are and as long as your not in the redline all the time It should be fine. Now thats not saying that riding at 9000rpms isnt going to hurt it, itll certainly lower the life span of the engine and cause more ware sooner. but hitting the highway at 7k isnt gonna hurt it.

Im not advocating one or the other as it looks as though you have put considerable time into it. I would suggest not making any expensive upgrades to either like an exhaust and such for at least the first year. I had planned to do tons to mine and finally decided to wait. Since this is your new bike once your used to it you will probably want a newer bigger bike next season.

The ninja 650 exhaust is one full system welded together. The only bolts are at the header to the engine and the points where it mounts to the frame. There is no slip on option for it. Unless you make your own. but youll need the place and gear to do it. Exhaust options for it are out there but ranging in price from 700-1200 bucks. If you plan to buy new that is your choice however I would save your cash for buying the expensive upgrades till later. I love my 650 and dont plan on getting rid of it but im not saying i wont so im just making cosmetic upgrades here and there.

[Dodsfall]

Either one would make a good motorcycle to start riding on. I would favor the 650 for highway commutes and the 250 for it's fuel economy and maneuverability, especially for city riding.

There may be some difference in the insurance rates as well. That's something to check into.

[Gunner75]

the 650 gets great fuel economy. So long as i stay out of it i can get as high as 65mpg when drafting

[RobMoore]

Buy your first bike KNOWING it WILL get damaged.

If by some miracle of chance, nothing happens, great.

Buy a used 250 with the expectation of selling it after a year.

[Eshkeemo]

As I said, ive already taken the msf course and have a motorcycle endorsement. I really don't want to buy used because I want to do a hard break in myself, and make sure I keep track of all work done on it to ensurevits longevity. The money isn't really a problem.

[RobMoore]

That is exactly how you should feel..... about your second bike.

[Gunner75]

well if he wants to get a brand new bike it is his money and it is his choice so hes gonna do what he wants. Just remember to keep the rubber side down.

[RobMoore]

And? He asked for advice, I gave it. I'm not going to be butthurt if he doesn't take it.

My 22 yr old brother in law asked me for similar advice about selling his Malibu for a Challenger. I told him to put it in Craigslist for a week instead of trading it in at a dealer. What does he do? The next day he went for a test drive and traded his car. Oh well, he is happy. He doesn't know that he'd be happier a couple thousand dollars richer. Either way, my bank account is the same.

[spacejunkiehsv]

Originally Posted by Gunner75

the 650 gets great fuel economy. So long as i stay out of it i can get as high as 65mpg when drafting

Seriously? You DRAFT on a motorcycle? You better be psychic, or you might be eating someones rear end soon.

To the OP: Since you are young, I think you should start on a 250. The younger you are, the harder it is to control your impulses. My 650R is not nearly as fast as a 600cc inline-4, but it ain't slow. It can build speed quickly enough to get you in trouble.

I say get the 250, ride it for a year or more while fighting the itch for a faster bike, then get your 600 or 650.

[spacejunkiehsv]

I forgot to mention something. Since money isn't a problem for you, do yourself a favor and get a bike with anti-lock brakes. I'm pretty sure the CBR 250 can be had with ABS. I'm not sure about the Ninja. I'm so far out of the loop as for what is on the market right now, that there may be a third competitor to those two bikes. Good luck on your decision. I hope you make the right one!

[Eshkeemo]

I've been looking into ABS for the 650, I don't think it's offered on the ninja 250.

I 'm definitely leaning towards the 650, because while I may track some day for fun, I'll never push it to far, so I've really no need for the power band of a 600, and the smooth torque just sounds more appealing. The 650 will probably be good enough for me at least until my 20's and I get 30k+ on the bike.

@Rob - I do understand your advice, but I'd rather something happen with the bike when it's new, that way I either know it's my fault as a rider or the manufacturer, and not something I overlooked when purchasing used. Plus a warranty.

[Gunner75]

Originally Posted by spacejunkiehsv

Seriously? You DRAFT on a motorcycle? You better be psychic, or you might be eating someones rear end soon.

I wont get into all the science of it, but suffice it to say that ive tested it numerous times on the highway. at 3-4 car lengths is the envelope and after sitting long enough i can watch the Average MPG increase. As i said above, ive gotten mine as high as the mid 60s at 70mph and in 6th gear.

[spacejunkiehsv]

Originally Posted by Gunner75

I wont get into all the science of it, but suffice it to say that ive tested it numerous times on the highway. at 3-4 car lengths is the envelope and after sitting long enough i can watch the Average MPG increase. As i said above, ive gotten mine as high as the mid 60s at 70mph and in 6th gear.

I believe you. I just think it is dangerous. If you have the reflexes for it and never get distracted, you may be fine. I think it would be a good idea to back off though. I have spoken my peace. Be careful.

[Dodsfall]

Another scenario to consider when following other vehicles closely is car and truck traffic behind you needs more time to stop than a motorcycle does. They also might not be paying close attention.

Keeping a healthy cushion between the motorcycle and the traffic in front will give a rider more time to maintain their space with cars behind should vehicles in front stop suddenly.

[cbdallas]

Let me offer you a compromise: Find a cared-for 2006-2008 650R and cut your teeth on that first. You'll get 95% of the performance of the 2013, and you won't be quite as devastated when you road rash it. Of course I'd love a brand new one, but I love my 2007.

[Eshkeemo]

Originally Posted by cbdallas

Let me offer you a compromise: Find a cared-for 2006-2008 650R and cut your teeth on that first. You'll get 95% of the performance of the 2013, and you won't be quite as devastated when you road rash it. Of course I'd love a brand new one, but I love my 2007.

The biggest reason for not getting a used one for myself is the psychological aspect. If I get an older, used bike, I'd think to myself "Okay, I'm only going to have this for a year or two, this is just my first bike that I'll end up laying down at some point"

Whereas if I get the new one, I'll think "Can't lay it down. Can't lay it down. Can't lay it down"

I understand that a majority of riders have falls with their first bike, but just like with getting a beater for a first car, I didn't go through that.

I'm not saying I WON'T get a used bike, I'm keeping all my options open and trying my best not to shut anyone's opinions out. Someone even told me to get a supermoto, and I put consideration to that.

If I layed down a used bike that I bought for the purpose of having it for the first crash, then the lesson might not stick quite as clearly in my head. If I have my new bike, that I cared for and had it from it's first .1 mile from the walk from the dealer, then having anything happen to it will stick a lot more clearly in my mind. At least I would think so.

[goalie]

I completely understand your way of thinking. Hey, we're all see things in our own way.

[cbdallas]

No worries, man..it's your money. I just really hate to see someone have the impression that he / she has total control over what happens out on the road. You're a brand new rider, with little or no knowledge of crash avoidance, brake modulation....even balance is a new area for you. Don't be fooled into thinking that you're in complete control. Guys that have been riding for years don't even have that.

I hate for anyone to suffer the heartbreak of screwing up a beautiful, showroom-new bike. I can't say with any certainty that you will lay it down, just as much as you can't say with any certainty that you won't.

My sister's car, August 2010 (100% other driver's fault)



Her post-wreck attitude: "Must avoid crashes. Must avoid crashes."

My sister's truck: July 2012 (her fault)

[RobMoore]

Whereas if I get the new one, I'll think "Can't lay it down. Can't lay it down. Can't lay it down"

That is the perfect way to have a very very slow learning process.

[Islesfan91]

in october, when I was learning to ride, I bought a 2011 Ninja 650, candy burnt orange and black. Brand new rider, took a course, rode it on very short trips over the winter, then started to ride it more as the weather got better. I'm 39, and not a speed demon.




In June I wrecked it, low sided in a corner and nailed my head on the way down, still not sure what caused it, but the bike was very badly damaged, to the point where I didn't want it back. I worked with the dealer and now am riding a 2012 Ninja 650.


You can do whatever you decide you want to do, but best be aware of what one mistake will do to both your wallet and your body. I came out of my crash fine, my thumb is the only lingering injury a month and a half later. If I rode how I drove at 19 I'm sure it would have happened sooner and been a much more dangerous situation. At 19 I didn't know myself and I didn't respect my limits. I can't speak for you though.


In short, I knew at the time I was buying new (strike 1), bigger than a 250 (strike 2) and prior to even having my motorcycle course (strike 3) and I still chose to do it. My choice, my consequences. I would advise against it, but I'm a poor example

[SpitefulHam]

Originally Posted by Eshkeemo

Highway riding seems to be higher rev in the gears than on the 650, and I do highway riding often enough to where I wouldn't want to risk damaging the engine. Usually taking trips to chicago (roughly a 5 hour highway drive) maybe once every two weeks.

You won't be "damaging" the engine, assuming it is properly broken in and well maintained.

The bigger issue is the second part of that paragraph. 5 hours on EITHER of these bikes is going to be downright brutal. They have a more relaxed seating position then a super sport, but it will still get cramped. I'm NOT saying that it can't be done, just add plenty of stretching time into your traveling plan because you are going to need it. You're probably going to need recovery time after the ride as well, especially if the weather is very hot or very cold.

I ride a Yamaha FZ6R, got it in August of last year, has a very similar seating position to the 650R. I ride about 1.5 hours to work and then home again. I ride every day unless it's physically raining when I leave the house (rain on the way home doesn't bother me). I've put on right at 24K miles so far since I got it. The point is, I'm pretty used to riding 1.5 hours on it. When I go above 2 hours I start to feel it. I was on it for 2.5 hours one day on the ride home last week (110ish heat index) because of an accident in the road and I thought I was going to die. I ride with kevlar jeans, textile jacket, riding sneakers, short cuff gloves and FF helmet and wear a backpack with some essentials plus a camel back in it at all times. Again, the point is, even though I'm used to riding 1.5 hours, 2.5 is brutal to me (at least in high heat).

We're all different and you may be able to go 8 hours on a 650R without so much as a toe cramp, my advice is to just take the first couple of trips easy and give yourself lots of time padding.

[Eshkeemo]

Unfortunately I can't post links or images of the bike I decided to go with, but it's a candy orange, resembling the post above me.

It's a used 2011 650R, 3500 miles. I know the guys who do work on my car, and they've got friends at a local motorcycle shop who're going to take a look at it and make sure it's all good. The asking price is $5,000.

I'd like to thank everyone for their advice. It's been very much appreciated. I did decide to go with used instead of new so I maybe can ride it a bit harder than I would a new bike, though I'm still going to be cautious since it's bigger.

I've talked to the guy, he says it's never been laid down, hard break in, and some modifications to it. (Painted windscreen, sport bars V3, chopped mirrors, fender eliminator, LED turn signals with correct relay to prevent hyperflash, and a rear seat cowl painted to match the bike). Also has title in his hand, with his name on it. I'm excited to take it to the shop to get it looked at ^_^

[Gunner75]

Most i can do at a time is about 2.5 hrs then i have to take about a 30min break. I will agree with Spiteful that the 650 is brutal after an hour and a half. If your riding in a group like myself and so many others, youll probably be taking breaks bout every couple of hours.

[Islesfan91]

I had that problem with my 2011, have a bad knee and hip. The 2012 with the new seat has totally removed those issues for me. Long rides are no longer an issue. 5-6 hours on the bike twice on weekends is no longer leaving me feeling like the walking dead.

[spacejunkiehsv]

My seat starts bugging me after 30-45 minutes of riding. Riding on more twisty roads helps though, because either I don't think about it or I'm shifting on the seat. It is probably because I am not thinking about it. I don't ride very hard and put my knee down or anything.

I hear that custom seat modifications make a big difference though. I'm always broke. So, I STILL haven't had mine modified. Who knows, you may have absolutely no problem with the seat.

Oh. See if the guy has the stock parts, especially the handlebars! You may not like his mods.

[spacejunkiehsv]

Originally Posted by Islesfan91

I had that problem with my 2011, have a bad knee and hip. The 2012 with the new seat has totally removed those issues for me. Long rides are no longer an issue. 5-6 hours on the bike twice on weekends is no longer leaving me feeling like the walking dead.

That is good to know. I don't like the stock seat on my 2009, same as your old 2011.

[Islesfan91]

Originally Posted by spacejunkiehsv

That is good to know. I don't like the stock seat on my 2009, same as your old 2011.

The 2012 is more comfortable and a bit narrower, which changes the angle for my knee and hip and has made a world of difference. I can't describe how much happier I am with it, so in an odd way it's worked out that I crashed the old one. I had only 4900km on the 2011 in about 8 months and have put 2500km on this one in 3 weeks

[Eshkeemo]

Originally Posted by spacejunkiehsv

Oh. See if the guy has the stock parts, especially the handlebars! You may not like his mods.

He has all the stock parts.