Do you warm up your bike?

[Tankhead]

Originally Posted by R1200R

Ok, so I had a mini debate with someone who said "you can just start your R1200R and ride off" to me.... to which I said, no I'd rather give it 1 minute or so when it's cold to warm up first... (I don't necessarily wait for normal operating temp)..

Reason.... thermal expansion/oil circulation ... the laws of physics have not been suspended just because newer manufacturing technology has improved tolerances, etc..

What do you do, and why?

Since I'm ready to ride almost every time I start it, then yes I do. 15 - 30 seconds in the summer and about a minute in the winter. Eventhough its FI I don't like riding off until the revs have settled some. It always has and still does.

[EntropyFx]

Nope. Might choke it out a little when it's cold, my Honda runs a little cold-blooded in the spring and late-fall.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

Originally Posted by murphyshuman

nope, no change, i still do this......:d:d:d

lol!

[markk53]

Originally Posted by R1200R

not drag racing, just acceleration to road speeds (maybe 45mph) puts a lot of load on a cold engine.. 1 minute is a good number... much longer is diminishing returns and possibly harmful.

True story, I went to the dealer with a friend looking at a Moto Guzzi and they started the bike... my friend went to rev it and the salesman got all over him for it... said to him "If this were your bike, would you rev it while it was cold?"
How is that difference than start and go?

So, you take it for granted that salesperson was knowledgeable enough to know what he was talking about? I was in motorcycle sales in a mid-sized dealership for about 22 years. So if that gives them some authority, I guess I have it too. Of course I got my knowledge from a variety of other sources too, like the mechanics/techs (yes there is a difference and these guys were both) and the factory service rep when he stopped by. I don't walk slowly initially at a baby pace when I'm cold, so I guess yes, I would want some light revs if I was the Guzzi (and I actually had a Guzzi too).

If Kawasaki's 4000 rpm revs on choke for a 550 and big single 650 doesn't hurt, a few blips of the Guzzi throttle wouldn't either. If I actually let either bike sit for a minute and warm up they'd be at mid-rev range the whole time or farting and stalling. The enrichener system doesn't work all that well in the middle.

Ever watch a racer or their mechanic warm up a bike? Any racer, not just those with money for constant rebuilds. They're constantly lightly blipping the throttle. Not redline, but blipping. Kind of keeps the juices flowing a bit. Also can keep a two stroke from loading up at idle. Some of those bikes run all season without teardown. Same with drag racers. All tend to vary rpm a bit during warm up. As did we, when warming up new bikes. Nothing hurt, no redline, not even 1/2 rpm range.

Fact is the human machine also works with "slight blips". You don't just walk around and stretch for warm up, you take some light sprints to go along with stretching. It's all about moderation and a bit of knowledge. You know that, otherwise you'd be one of the five minute warm up riders and have some really colorful exhaust headers.

[markk53]

Originally Posted by Rebel53

I let it run for about a minute, to get oil flowing into the upper cylinders and the heads. I'd rather do that than risk having oil starvation, even for only a moment.

You honestly need to learn more about engines and how they work. It's not like the Keebler elves are in there carrying oil to the head in buckets. You have a positive oil pump that pumps oil immediately through the passages to the head before the engine has even had a chance to fire and run - yes that quick.

Then you have the fact that the oil does not completely drain away out of the top end. I have both done and seen enough top end work (valve adjustment, etc) to tell you there is oil still in there for that fraction of a second before there is full pressure.

On those videos posted by the OP:

One has a guy who claims to be a tech, but then he says the oil is not lubricating adequately when cold. If it didn't we'd all be paying for cam work constantly. I mean, if the oil takes that long to get up there and it isn't working right, that should be the case right? That's pretty much crap. Not only that, but a minute will only warm everything up maybe 40 degrees. You can still touch everything on the engine except the exhaust manifold area. There can be more temperature variation by ambient outdoor temperatures than that. Your minute at 50 degrees doesn't provide the same warm up as your minute at 80 degrees, do you compensate?

I will tell you, he is possibly right about the fuel pump thing. I understand the S10s can ruin fuel pumps for some reason, if not given the chance to build pressure. Of course that could also be an old wives' tale too.

Then we have the "expert" who can't tell you the general workings of why the fuel injection does what it does - sensor input to the computer tell it when to run a richer mixture and when cold enough the computer will tell it to raise the idle... yes, rev faster! When the engine gets hot enough the sensor input will adjust both the idle and the mixture to meet the programmed requirements of the sensors. But this guy apparently doesn't know enough to know it's not black magic. He is also telling you to run as little choke as possible. That's fine on a motorcycle with choke, but not all are like that. Kawasakis frequently have an enrichener.

All the enrichener is is a sort of plug that caps off a passage to the float bowl. When opened up there is an air draw that sucks up gas and mixes to enrichen the idle mixture. There is no true way to adjust that set up like a true choke, where you can vary the butterfly valve by the lever position. The enrichener is like trying to cap a hose with your thumb and get a predictable spray, if you play with it enough you may find a semi-functional setting - for a few seconds, then it may die or it may start to rev high again. So, how is it that the average rider of a bike like that is supposed to find "only the amount of choke needed"?

Seems the Youtube experts may not be so expert. Just because they're on Youtube doesn't mean they're expert, especially when some of their statements are vague (kind of like Yamaha's owner's manual statement - how warmed up is warmed up, Yamaha?).

Then the bike rider says most bikes are warmed up in about 30 seconds... yeah, try pinning the throttle on a two stroke on a continuous basis with only about 30 seconds warm up. You may get a welcome to siezure city.

Real world... If you can ride the bike away without stalling, it is ready to go. Your warm up continues until the engine is at full operating temperatures. In other words firing up the bike, waiting a minute, then running down to the grocery store about 3 minutes away the bike is NOT warmed up fully. It takes the engine a fair amount of time to warm up fully. You can see that in cars and bikes with temperature gauges. Your gauge may not even move until the thermostat opens, then the engine is working at about 180-195 or more, full operating temperature. In my truck that takes about 5 minutes or so. On my dual sport it may take more before I actually get serious heat at the radiator tank. Both can be driven off before that.

Short hopping and incomplete warm up likely hurts an engine far more than cold start and sensible running from there. The oil and engine never get really warmed up, any condensation that may have occurred (and it does occur) will not be "cooked off". The oil will have contaminants, that might ordinarily have evaporated off, remain in it. Engines that get long run time between start and shutdown will last longer than those that don't. You should be more concerned with running your vehicle long enough to get it to full operating temperatures for a reasonable amount of time, which I believe is like 20 minutes.

Clearly it makes little difference how much time between starting the engine and rolling off might be. The important part is that the engine not be run hard until it has sufficient warm up time. At that point there is far less risk of excessive piston growth versus cylinder growth, which result in siezures, both partial (that may not even be noticable) and full. As I said, I've been in the shop around probably several hundred torn down engines and seen what I speak of. Abuse is abuse when the engine is cold it's going to damage things. Common sense riding without excessive loading of an engine either at low or at high rpm will work fine during the warm up period. That can be done riding away after a few seconds run time.

[R1200R]

this is some good info I think many these days seem to agree with.. on break-in, but also on warmup (About half way down the page)...

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

from about half way down.. "warm up completely" ... he doesn't advocate doing this at idle mind you, but I assume this would be a direct relationship to how much power you ask from a cold engine.... so if you just start and go, you'd better be VERY easy on the engine, vs if you give it 1 minute to warm up a little, maybe you can ask a bit more (clearly not full power) from it..

"Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!

Q: What is the second most common cause of engine problems ???
A: An easy break in !!!"

[Hawkeye]

About the effectiveness of this thread I have changed my habits on warming up my car after a thread like this talking about my car specifically. If I found something better or more efficient I change my procedure. I am not that stuck in my ways to assume I know what is right, even if I have been doing something for a long time.

When my engine reads LOW temperature (below 112 degrees) my throttle is VERY choppy and slow to react. That is the reason I will continue to warm my bike up.

[Biker Dash]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

About the effectiveness of this thread I have changed my habits on warming up my car after a thread like this talking about my car specifically. If I found something better or more efficient I change my procedure. I am not that stuck in my ways to assume I know what is right, even if I have been doing something for a long time.

When my engine reads LOW temperature (below 112 degrees) my throttle is VERY choppy and slow to react. That is the reason I will continue to warm my bike up.

But it wont harm the bike really. Yes, it does benefit you to warm the bike though if your bike performs better warm.
Mine does as well, though not to the same degree that you describe

[Eye_m_no_angel]

""Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!"

Clearly this guy isn't an engine technician.

[R1200R]

Originally Posted by Eye_m_no_angel

""Q: What is the most common cause of engine problems ???
A: Failure to:
Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!!"

Clearly this guy isn't an engine technician.

I think this guy, Pat McGivern is a very well respected motorcycle tuner with a lot of technical knowledge... a google search will turn up a bit of chatter about his techniques.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/thanx.htm

[OldGuy]

After reading through all of these posts, all I can say is if I don't
let it run for a minute or so it gags when I roll the throttle. In fact
it takes a couple of minutes before I get smooth throttle response.
I know squat about motors, with fuel injection or carburetors, so
it could be a mechanical or electrical problem. I don't think about
it that much, I just ride and grin!

[Eye_m_no_angel]

"I think this guy, Pat McGivern is a very well respected motorcycle tuner with a lot of technical knowledge... "

His comment that most causes of engine failure stem from failing to warm an engine up properly shows me that he has no real experience working as a motorcycle engine technician and has not rebuilt or repaired very many motorcycle engines. By and large almost every motorcycle technician I know, (including myself of course,) will tell you that most causes of engine failure are a result of failing to keep the proper amount of oil in the engine, or failing to change that oil at the right intervals.

I have never had to rebuild an engine that failed as a result of the type of oil used or the method of warming the engine that was used, and I have rebuilt a lot of engines. True, both of the above can cause different amounts of wear, but that's realisticaly not a problem for the first 200,000 miles or so. <wry grin>

And after reading some of his writings on the webpage, I was even more convinced that he is not an engine technician. To be sure, the guy has certain technical knowledge, and he may be a very good tuner, but he is NOT an engine builder.

[Hawkeye]

I would have thought that the majority of engine failures on motorcycles would have been from crashing... most engines should outlast a persons luck.

[R1200R]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I would have thought that the majority of engine failures on motorcycles would have been from crashing... most engines should outlast a persons luck.

a sad but likely true statistic...

[ralphlong]

Maybe even more than crashing, could most motorcycle engine failures be due to non-use? Bikes sitting around, not being used until the internal engine parts corrode. "Ran when parked!"

Ralph

[Biker Dash]

Originally Posted by ralphlong

Maybe even more than crashing, could most motorcycle engine failures be due to non-use? Bikes sitting around, not being used until the internal engine parts corrode. "Ran when parked!"

Ralph

I've seen that a lot on Craigslist =/

[Eye_m_no_angel]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

I would have thought that the majority of engine failures on motorcycles would have been from crashing... most engines should outlast a persons luck.

That's not an engine failure, that's a failure of the nut behind the handlebars. (Or the nut behind the wheel of a different vehicle.)

[Eye_m_no_angel]

Originally Posted by ralphlong

Maybe even more than crashing, could most motorcycle engine failures be due to non-use? Bikes sitting around, not being used until the internal engine parts corrode. "Ran when parked!"

Ralph

Fuel system problems, yeah. Internal engine failures, not likely.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Eye_m_no_angel

That's not an engine failure, that's a failure of the nut behind the handlebars. (Or the nut behind the wheel of a different vehicle.)

It can still cause the engine to fail to work.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that this emoticon is called baldboy yet not bald?

[ralphlong]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

It can still cause the engine to fail to work.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that this emoticon is called baldboy yet not bald?

Maybe its a typo. Maybe it should be BADboy?

Ralph

[Biker Dash]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

It can still cause the engine to fail to work.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that this emoticon is called baldboy yet not bald?

Thats like why do we park in driveways, but drive on parkways?

[goalie]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

It can still cause the engine to fail to work.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that this emoticon is called baldboy yet not bald?

Maybe they're not talking about on top of his head?

[Dodsfall]

It's a toupee.

[vroomvroom]

I baby my engines. No high revving till warm.