Michigan State Police swithing to BMW's

[smooth1]

http://www.freep.com/article/2012072...-in-on-Harleys

[DachshundUberAlles]

State Troopers in Alabama use Harley-Davidson.
Tuscaloosa and Northport PD use Harley-Davidson.
University of Alabama PD use BMW scooters.
Birmingham PD use GoldWings.
I wonder if the venerable Kawasaki KZ1000 police bike is getting a bit old for PD's?

[Lurch77]

I hope they factored maintenance costs into their evaluation. If the HDs got one thing going for them, it is extremely low maintenance required.

[DachshundUberAlles]

Back when TPD used Kawasaki's, they had a list of parts that were listed as "must haves" as far as being "on hand" at our shop. They were also very particular that some items that would have been considerably less expensive if sourced aftermarket could only be OE Kawasaki supplied (tires and drive chain).
They were happy with EBC brake pads and Sunstar sprockets.

Their "must haves" were:
Complete set valve shims
valve cover gaskets
exhaust gaskets and muffler packing
air filters
carburetor insulators
complete set clutch plates and clutch cover gasket
floorboard rubber pads
rear brake pedal rubber
fairing pocket covers
plastic windscreen mounting screws
2 chain/sprocket sets
2 front tires
4 rear tires
rear brake rotor
10 sets brake pads

I will give the City of Tuscaloosa credit on their prompt payment at the end of each month. I've heard horror stories about other Cities being "forgetful" when it came to settling the bills.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

North Carolina Highway Patrol switched to BMW's several years ago, but the last time I saw one he was on a Harley. I was told they have some for certain uses and others for different uses, but I don't know if that's true or not.

[spacejunkiehsv]

31 seconds to get to 100 mph? So, I could pull away from the HD's in my Hyundai Accent? That's shameful. HD should just put together a faster machine for the police. I'm sure the folks in Michigan would switch back in a heartbeat.

[ithelper]

Washington State Patrol transitioned AWAY from the BMW last year because of the cost of maintenance and having to wait for parts.

They switched over to the Honda ST1300PA Police Motorcycle. My friend rides one on patrol and it is a pretty awesome piece of machinery.

[FNA]

"If the HDs got one thing going for them, it is extremely low maintenance required."

You're thinking of private owners - the bike that sits in the garage all the time doesn't wear out.

PD bikes actually get used and harleys wear out like everything else (In fact, they wear out more rapidly based on my experiences from '82-'90)

In fact, here's a hijack question - I put more wheel bearings (front and rear) in my XLCH than in any other bike I've owned or worked on. Any other HD experience with this?

[smooth1]

I view this as the state police trying to spend our tax dollars wisely There is another police dept in the suburbs switching from Harley's
to Victories. I don t know how the Victory s stack up in the state police evaluation. Like the one guy from the MI state police said in the article, Harley's still have a function Parade duty

[bajakirch]

I think my favorite line was this:
A State Police analysis tried to be kind to the Harleys, calling them a "capable vehicle for parade and ceremonial use."

Talk about damning with faint praise...

I tend to believe their results. What many people don't know is that MSP is known nationwide in law enforcement circles for its vehicle testing procedures. Their reviews of police vehicles carry significant weight when other departments make their vehicle purchasing decisions.

I think they overlooked the most obvious question: Where are they putting the cherry?

[goalie]

I'm kind of surprised that the police Harleys aren't suped-up. Sort of like the Ford Tauruses or Mercury Crown Victorias that filled so many police fleets for 20 years.

A standard stock HD bagger is not noted for speed and power, although the 31 seconds surprised (shocked) me.

[Lurch77]

Originally Posted by FNA

"If the HDs got one thing going for them, it is extremely low maintenance required."

You're thinking of private owners - the bike that sits in the garage all the time doesn't wear out.

PD bikes actually get used and harleys wear out like everything else (In fact, they wear out more rapidly based on my experiences from '82-'90)

In fact, here's a hijack question - I put more wheel bearings (front and rear) in my XLCH than in any other bike I've owned or worked on. Any other HD experience with this?

I've 15,000 on my HD. No valve checks, belt drive, air cooled. Just very little maintenance when compared to other bikes. I'm not bias, I own several brands. My Yamaha and Suzuki require much more routine maintenance than the Sportster. That doesn't mean I like them less, just the facts.

[Lurch77]

Originally Posted by goalie

A standard stock HD bagger is not noted for speed and power, although the 31 seconds surprised (shocked) me.

This article shows it at 25. Still not that fast, but quite a bit better than 31.
http://www.policemag.com/channel/veh...wn/page/2.aspx

[bajakirch]

Originally Posted by Lurch77

This article shows it at 25. Still not that fast, but quite a bit better than 31.
http://www.policemag.com/channel/veh...wn/page/2.aspx

Not to split hairs or anything, but that article was from 2007. So different tests of different bikes. These days the police bikes are carrying even more gear than they used to. The one used in my department has the top box filled with a mobile data computer and printer. So it's entirely possible the most recent test was with a bike carrying more weight.

[goalie]

I've never timed my Sporster, but it feels like I can hit 70 in just a few seconds. Although I've never accelerated from zero to 100, going from 65 to 95 only takes a few seconds also.

It just seems like 25 seconds is quite slow -- even accounting for the extra weight.

[bajakirch]

Well, I've never owned or even ridden a HD, so I can't comment from personal experience.

But if the MSP is putting the 31 second number in their official evaluation data, and the number's not accurate, then one would be intimating that either:

A) Their testing process is flawed. And, as mentioned, the MSP has one of the most rigorous vehicle testing processes in the country; they're well-known for their evaluations and -- due to that notoriety -- their results are going to be reviewed very closely. If they have decades of experience in this kind of thing, why would their testing data suddenly be wrong?

B) They lied about the time. But why would they do this, when they know that every red-blooded Harley owner with a Road Glide or Electra Glide is going to immediately go out and try to prove them wrong?

[goalie]

I don't doubt the results. Just honestly wonder why any police department would use bikes with that sort of slow acceleration?

[Castle81]

Originally Posted by goalie

I'm kind of surprised that the police Harleys aren't suped-up. Sort of like the Ford Tauruses or Mercury Crown Victorias that filled so many police fleets for 20 years.

A standard stock HD bagger is not noted for speed and power, although the 31 seconds surprised (shocked) me.

Common misconception. The *ford* crown vic isn't really all that hopped up. Maybe +15 - 20 hp. Mostly suspension and electrical mods. It's not the the CVPI is that much faster, it's that the civvie model's are driven sooo much slower than they're capable of.

I can see that 31 sec. as being close to accurate. As much as the bike weighs in civilian trim, with all the added equipment for police duty it can't be too far from riding the civ model 2-up with light gear for a weekend trip.

I wonder what % of harley sales are to police contracts. I admire Harley's dedication in preserving their heritage in their current offerings, but how long can they resist change before they over specialize and become the equivalent of an american royal enfield. Inoffensively modernized retro niche machines, with little appeal outside a few specific markets.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

Originally Posted by bajakirch

Not to split hairs or anything, but that article was from 2007. So different tests of different bikes. These days the police bikes are carrying even more gear than they used to. The one used in my department has the top box filled with a mobile data computer and printer. So it's entirely possible the most recent test was with a bike carrying more weight.

The engine in a 2007 Harley police model was 88 ci. The engine in a current police model is 103 ci.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

Originally Posted by goalie

I've never timed my Sporster, but it feels like I can hit 70 in just a few seconds. Although I've never accelerated from zero to 100, going from 65 to 95 only takes a few seconds also.

It just seems like 25 seconds is quite slow -- even accounting for the extra weight.

Your Sportster is an entirely different bike and has a much different power to weight ratio. The acceleration is going to be quite a bit quicker then the heavyweight cruisers that were tested for police use.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

"If the HDs got one thing going for them, it is extremely low maintenance required."

You're thinking of private owners - the bike that sits in the garage all the time doesn't wear out."

"PD bikes actually get used and harleys wear out like everything else (In fact, they wear out more rapidly based on my experiences from '82-'90)"

Um, yeah. They've made a few changes since '82.

"In fact, here's a hijack question - I put more wheel bearings (front and rear) in my XLCH than in any other bike I've owned or worked on. Any other HD experience with this?"

Nope. I've replaced very few wheel bearings on Harleys. In fact, most of the ones I have replaced have been on so called "Custom Bikes." How many have you replaced? Front or back or both?

[bajakirch]

Originally Posted by goalie

I don't doubt the results. Just honestly wonder why any police department would use bikes with that sort of slow acceleration?

It all boils down to one word...'marketing'.

For many years HD has made it very easy for PDs and other emergency services (our local FD has a couple that paramedics use for large events) to start up motor units. The last I heard, the deal was a $1 lease for the first 1 or 2 years. After that, the department has the option of purchasing the bike at a pre-determined price or giving it back to HD. AFAIK, not other manufacturer of police-use MCs is doing anything like that.

The theory goes that, once HD gets their foot in the door with a department, it's all that much easier to keep them as a customer. And, admittedly, HD spends a lot of money to maintain their image as the #1 choice for police bikes. Even so, I've been seeing more and more encroachment on what was nearly a 100% market share over the years. With very strong models from other manufacturers (besides the BMW, the Kawasaki Concours 14 and Honda ST1300 come to mind), I think it will become harder and harder for them to maintain their dominance if they don't start making some serious changes in what they offer.

[Castle81]

Here's a link to th LA Sheriff's department eval for '12. Some very diffrent numbers indeed. Link to pdf of full report at end of article.

http://www.policemag.com/blog/vehicl...torcycles.aspx

[smooth1]

All your looking at are numbers in the CA report-not that numbers aren't important. If I'm reading it correctly, the BMW scored higher than the HD. The MI state police report also took into account: safety features that were not available on the Harley, longer warrany & service intervals on the BMW and the price difference between the Harley & BMW. When alls said & done the BMW appears to be a better bang for the buck. I hope Harley will do more than rely on name recognition the next time they go to a direct competition with other manufacturers. Say what you want but Harley needs to do a little engineering to bring their bikes up to speed. It's not all about how much chrome you have.

[CaptCrashIdaho]

CHP is switching to Kawi C14s...the Honda ST1300 is still popular with municipalities too...

[CaptCrashIdaho]

One last thought--LEOs in the know tell me that one of the rear serious issues is the electrics. On some bikes they used to have to change the alternator or add a second battery because the load is so heavy...

[smooth1]

Originally Posted by CaptCrashIdaho

One last thought--LEOs in the know tell me that one of the rear serious issues is the electrics. On some bikes they used to have to change the alternator or add a second battery because the load is so heavy...

Was that on Harley's?

[AikinutNY]

BMW 1200, Honda ST1300, Kawasaki Cocours 1400, and maybe a Yamaha FJR1300 are the sport-touring bikes I am looking at next spring after I have retired and sell my cruiser.

Unless my wife opts for a Can-AM Spyder, she has problems with her legs if she wants to ride solo.

[CaptCrashIdaho]

Originally Posted by smooth1

Was that on Harley's?

If memory serves it was Beemers that they actually added a second battery in the saddlebags... Unfortunately, where I am you never see Harley Police bikes...just ain't none...

[Milky Joe]

Man, now I can't wave when the MSP pass me anymore! (Just kidding. I wave to any brand of bike, and even squids if they haven't just endangered my life.)

[bajakirch]

Originally Posted by Castle81

Here's a link to th LA Sheriff's department eval for '12. Some very diffrent numbers indeed. Link to pdf of full report at end of article.

http://www.policemag.com/blog/vehicl...torcycles.aspx

LASD/LAPD is the other big evaluator that carries a lot of weight with other departments. While I'm not privvy to the exact methodology of the testers (and I'm not going to read the full 94-page report), I've heard that the MSP testing relies more on objective measurements, while the LASD/LAPD tests incorporate more subjective opinions of the riders.

And seriously, a Victory Vision? Who thought that Buck Rogers-inspired thing would make a good police bike?!

[Eye_m_no_angel]

"I hope Harley will do more than rely on name recognition the next time they go to a direct competition with other manufacturers. Say what you want but Harley needs to do a little engineering to bring their bikes up to speed. It's not all about how much chrome you have."

The Michigan State Police buy a whopping 9 motorcycles from another manufacturer and you want Harley to re-engineer? <chuckle>

Rest assured, Harley is very confident in what they are doing and the direction they are going in. They absolutely dominate the heavy cruiser market and are the largest selling brand of motorcycle in the USA.

And, for what it's worth, the majority of MSP motor officers still ride Harleys.

[motomoto]

Why aren't they driving Japanese bikes - cheap to buy and maintain. Harley and BMW = waste of tax dollars for police departments.

[goalie]

Originally Posted by motomoto

Why aren't they driving Japanese bikes - cheap to buy and maintain. Harley and BMW = waste of tax dollars for police departments.

This obviously (dripping with sarcasm) is an educated and well-informed statement.

Please feel free to disclose the contracts to which you are obviously privvy. I would very much be interested in seeing the contract prices and how much cheaper the Japanese contract offers were.