linked brakes

sanford · 07-08-2012, 07:02 PM

Just heard of this reading a bit, I assume both front and rear brakes are linked, so how do the lever control work?? Is there still two brake controls??

Also with anti-lock brakes my decision is still up in the air with futhure purchase, just don't know enough about ABS yet one way or other... I know more or less how standard brakes work for a noob ABS or an unknown at moment, but linked brakes sure sound like a good idea?

btw thanks for a great bike forum

DachshundUberAlles · 07-08-2012, 08:24 PM

Honda has been doing it since the days of the four cylinder GoldWing. The rear brake pedal gives a bit of front brake as well, pulling the front hand lever gives the rest of the front.

That's the simple story of it.

Biker Dash · 07-08-2012, 08:41 PM

Some people swear by linked breaks, as well as ABS, while there are others who simply do not like them one bit.

ABS on a bike is pretty much like ABS in a car. When a sensor detects the wheel locking up, it modulates the brakes, keeping them right at the limits of the tire's grip.

Dachshund already gave the rundown on linked breaks.

Myself, I would choose to go without either normally, but if that is what was on a bike I really wanted, I am sure it would cause me no grief to have it.

aaronrkelly · 07-09-2012, 12:03 AM

The way MOST linked brakes work is like this.

The rear brake pedal applies the rear brake in addition to applying SOME pressure on the front. How that amount is applied is usually thru a proportioning valve (or something similar). The front brake lever applies MORE pressure on the front brake if used along with the rear pedal.

If your not using the rear brake at all and apply the front brake....you just get the front brake.

Ive owned two bikes with linked brakes. For the most part I like it just fine.....I find I brake more effectively.

However....there are times when I want JUST rear brakes.....and you can NEVER have that with a linked brake setup. I ride quite often in the winter if the roads are clear. However even IF the roads are clear my driveway usually is snowy and icy still. If I need to slow down going out of or into the driveway I cannot hit my brakes at all.....or the front end washes out. So I ride like hell and save my braking for "inside the garage" and hope I get her stopped before I get to the wall.

Thats isnt very common weather to ride a motorcycle in so I will give them a pass on that.

sanford · 07-09-2012, 12:08 AM

Thanks for info, may stick to run of the mill brakes, it's hard enough learning to control with normal brakes ... plus not kean also having front on in many situations like gravel roads...

aaronrkelly · 07-09-2012, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanford

Thanks for info, may stick to run of the mill brakes, it's hard enough learning to control with normal brakes ... plus not kean also having front on in many situations like gravel roads...

Yeah Ive never had it bother me on gravel. Both my Goldwing and Victory Vision have linked brakes and Ive done countless miles on the gravel. The front doesnt seem to come on hard or severe enough to every cause any problems.

......aint worth a **** on ice though.

Bede5man · 07-09-2012, 02:15 AM

Never had any experience with them...but...

NOTHING works worth a **** on ice!

(I rode in ND in college...)

markk53 · 07-09-2012, 08:23 AM

I was selling Hondas when they introduced their second gen linked sets. The first gen on the 83-87 GoldWings were really simple, the brake pedal worked the left front and the rear calipers, while the handlebar lever only worked the right caliper, no link for handlebar lever to rear.

Honda linked brakes, second gen:

I believe they used three piston, not six, calipers on both ends on the bigger bikes and double disc fronts, so this is based on the three piston calipers and double disc front brakes.

Handlebar lever works two pistons on each front caliper and one piston on the rear caliper

Foot pedal works one piston on each front caliper and two pistons on the rear caliper.

Points about linked brakes from my point of view. They work great in virtually all general road riding, with the only real weakness being if one gets on really loose surfaces like pea gravel or grass. Then it is possible to lose the front wheel if one isn't careful.

I think the second gen is a better road brake because one can have really strong front brakes when using only the hand lever. I have never heard of any issues from any riders who had the system on any of the Hondas.

Pretty simple set up, but lots of brake llines!

I don't remember if there was any actual pressure control from the pedal to the front or vice versa. I don't believe so.

The linked system, along with ABS, is considered a liability for the more serious dual sport rider because of the loose surfaces encountered on dirt/gravel roads and trails, not to mention the mud and all.

The systems are liabilities for track riders, although the Honda system for sportbike ABS is apparently excellent, and maybe some radical road riders, who probably should slow up a bit and put it on the track.

I'm thnking really good riders will do really well with ABS without problem when it comes to road riding. I'm thinking if I was really good on my brakes I'm working right at the edge of the ABS and it will be pretty much a wash whether I have it or not. That was demonstrated in some of the sportbike testing of the Honda system. The rider doing the testing was within a foot or so of ABS on general braking with both brakes in dry. The biggest gain for ABS on the sportbike was in wet or loose conditions and that is likely because the rider is more cautious with their braking control where the ABS works the fringe.

kamesama980 · 07-10-2012, 08:29 PM

Since nobody's mentioned it yet:

The biggest boon of ABS is that, like in cars, the ability to maintain steering control in a panic braking situation. ABS isn't designed to out-brake in straight line, it's often a tiny bit better in most situations. not always, not in all situations. there so you don't lose traction while turning and overbraking. It's a lot more useful in that sense on a bike since the car can't low- or high-side resulting from loss (or sudden return) of traction.

as far as riding with ABS, don't worry about it. unless somethings broken, you won't even notice it's there till you're right on the edge...and if you're a noob to riding you'll probably wipe out on the edge anyway so ABS might just keep you around and riding a little longer.

I'm certainly not an advocate of nanny systems anywhere (prefer darwinian approach myself) but I've found several intersections with hard to see gravel or dirt spread across them almost too late.

07-08-2012, 07:02 PM	#1
sanford Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 988	linked brakes Just heard of this reading a bit, I assume both front and rear brakes are linked, so how do the lever control work?? Is there still two brake controls?? Also with anti-lock brakes my decision is still up in the air with futhure purchase, just don't know enough about ABS yet one way or other... I know more or less how standard brakes work for a noob ABS or an unknown at moment, but linked brakes sure sound like a good idea? btw thanks for a great bike forum Last edited by sanford; 07-08-2012 at 07:10 PM..

07-08-2012, 08:24 PM	#2
DachshundUberAlles Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Alabama Posts: 848	Honda has been doing it since the days of the four cylinder GoldWing. The rear brake pedal gives a bit of front brake as well, pulling the front hand lever gives the rest of the front. That's the simple story of it. __________________ All we see hides something else we want to see.

07-08-2012, 08:41 PM	#3
Biker Dash Site Brony and Troll Eater Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Waterville, Maine (USA) Posts: 7,599	Some people swear by linked breaks, as well as ABS, while there are others who simply do not like them one bit. ABS on a bike is pretty much like ABS in a car. When a sensor detects the wheel locking up, it modulates the brakes, keeping them right at the limits of the tire's grip. Dachshund already gave the rundown on linked breaks. Myself, I would choose to go without either normally, but if that is what was on a bike I really wanted, I am sure it would cause me no grief to have it. __________________ 03 Yahama V-max 03 Dodge Ram 1500

07-09-2012, 12:03 AM	#4
aaronrkelly Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: southern Iowa Posts: 2,457	The way MOST linked brakes work is like this. The rear brake pedal applies the rear brake in addition to applying SOME pressure on the front. How that amount is applied is usually thru a proportioning valve (or something similar). The front brake lever applies MORE pressure on the front brake if used along with the rear pedal. If your not using the rear brake at all and apply the front brake....you just get the front brake. Ive owned two bikes with linked brakes. For the most part I like it just fine.....I find I brake more effectively. However....there are times when I want JUST rear brakes.....and you can NEVER have that with a linked brake setup. I ride quite often in the winter if the roads are clear. However even IF the roads are clear my driveway usually is snowy and icy still. If I need to slow down going out of or into the driveway I cannot hit my brakes at all.....or the front end washes out. So I ride like hell and save my braking for "inside the garage" and hope I get her stopped before I get to the wall. Thats isnt very common weather to ride a motorcycle in so I will give them a pass on that. __________________ Cadillac Roughnecks MC

07-09-2012, 08:23 AM	#8
markk53 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Delaware, Ohio Posts: 3,232	I was selling Hondas when they introduced their second gen linked sets. The first gen on the 83-87 GoldWings were really simple, the brake pedal worked the left front and the rear calipers, while the handlebar lever only worked the right caliper, no link for handlebar lever to rear. Honda linked brakes, second gen: I believe they used three piston, not six, calipers on both ends on the bigger bikes and double disc fronts, so this is based on the three piston calipers and double disc front brakes. Handlebar lever works two pistons on each front caliper and one piston on the rear caliper Foot pedal works one piston on each front caliper and two pistons on the rear caliper. Points about linked brakes from my point of view. They work great in virtually all general road riding, with the only real weakness being if one gets on really loose surfaces like pea gravel or grass. Then it is possible to lose the front wheel if one isn't careful. I think the second gen is a better road brake because one can have really strong front brakes when using only the hand lever. I have never heard of any issues from any riders who had the system on any of the Hondas. Pretty simple set up, but lots of brake llines! I don't remember if there was any actual pressure control from the pedal to the front or vice versa. I don't believe so. The linked system, along with ABS, is considered a liability for the more serious dual sport rider because of the loose surfaces encountered on dirt/gravel roads and trails, not to mention the mud and all. The systems are liabilities for track riders, although the Honda system for sportbike ABS is apparently excellent, and maybe some radical road riders, who probably should slow up a bit and put it on the track. I'm thnking really good riders will do really well with ABS without problem when it comes to road riding. I'm thinking if I was really good on my brakes I'm working right at the edge of the ABS and it will be pretty much a wash whether I have it or not. That was demonstrated in some of the sportbike testing of the Honda system. The rider doing the testing was within a foot or so of ABS on general braking with both brakes in dry. The biggest gain for ABS on the sportbike was in wet or loose conditions and that is likely because the rider is more cautious with their braking control where the ABS works the fringe. __________________ KLX650C, Zephyr 550 SR500, Bultaco Sherpa T Last edited by markk53; 07-09-2012 at 08:36 AM..

07-09-2012, 12:08 AM	#5
sanford Banned Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 988	Thanks for info, may stick to run of the mill brakes, it's hard enough learning to control with normal brakes ... plus not kean also having front on in many situations like gravel roads...

07-09-2012, 02:15 AM	#7
Bede5man Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Baltimore, MD Posts: 339	Never had any experience with them...but... NOTHING works worth a **** on ice! (I rode in ND in college...)

07-10-2012, 08:29 PM	#9
kamesama980 Verified Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 18	Since nobody's mentioned it yet: The biggest boon of ABS is that, like in cars, the ability to maintain steering control in a panic braking situation. ABS isn't designed to out-brake in straight line, it's often a tiny bit better in most situations. not always, not in all situations. there so you don't lose traction while turning and overbraking. It's a lot more useful in that sense on a bike since the car can't low- or high-side resulting from loss (or sudden return) of traction. as far as riding with ABS, don't worry about it. unless somethings broken, you won't even notice it's there till you're right on the edge...and if you're a noob to riding you'll probably wipe out on the edge anyway so ABS might just keep you around and riding a little longer. I'm certainly not an advocate of nanny systems anywhere (prefer darwinian approach myself) but I've found several intersections with hard to see gravel or dirt spread across them almost too late.

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