A New forum

[Maico Shark]

A member suggested this new forum. It is open to any thread dealing with laws vs motorcycles. Tell your story...sound the alarm...tell us how to beat the rap....whatever.

[lcanajoharie]

It seems like law enforcement in NYS is pretty good to the two wheeled crew. A buddy and I were out at the end of December here in upstate NY and we had one follow us for 5 or 6 miles up a country road. Probably because we were out in late December and that would lead an officer of the law to believe that we might be on something. We kept it right around the speed limit and probably after both our plates were run, the trooper turned off. I haven't been riding for long but that's really the first time a cop even paid any attention at all to me on the bike. Crappy storry I know but point being, seems like they aren't too worried about us up here in NY. My first bike had a temporary inspection sticker on it for two months. No prob.

[JimmyAcorn]

Haaaaaaaa.......you're just wanting controversey eh Maiko?! O.K. Here goes!!

I'm not a fan of LEO's for two reasons:

1. They are cops 24/7.
2. If they aren't cops 24/7 they're not doing their job.

My experience is that they will find any excuse to stop who looks to be an "old school" biker. I got pulled over (was riding alone) in the daytime during Sturgis bikeweek in S. Dakota (quite a few years ago) on I-90. Trooper going west turned around and came after me (going east) and pulled me over because my "handle bars are too high". Well, they weren't too high and I showed him as such sitting on my bike that they were not above my shoulders. So then he says, "you need to sit up straight" and he started to walk back to his car.

Well, being a bit of an antagonistic I said,
"Come on now, why'd you really pull me over?" (he never said a thing about my 1-1/2" drag pipes btw)

He replied, "I don't normally see that bandana riding alone". Well, my bandana wasn't indicative of any motorcycle club, just a color. While he may have felt justified in pulling me over, the fact is that from his initial vantage point I wasn't doing anything illegal and there was no justification for doing so. He could have given me a ticket for my drag pipes had he wanted to but his intent wasn't to ticket me but to make a bigger bust. Had I been a "bigger bust" there's no doubt in my mind his report would've justified the initial stop.

[Roadrash]

I had a Brother who got pulled over during the Rally in Sturgis. He explained that he had just been pulled over and profiled in Rapid City, and even showed the officers the courtesy card that the LEO's in Rapid had given him. They replied, "That's Rapid City, we don't care about that."
He asked why he was being pulled over, and they replied "We're stopping all (insert a Large, well-known 1%er Motorcycle Club name here)'s and profiling them. He looked in shock at his cut (vest) and said, "But I'm not a ________!" The cops looked dumbfounded, and then said "Well, we're just stopping all 1%ers that we see.
Again, he glanced down at his cut, checked it all over and said, "But officer, I'm not a 1%er." This got the LEO a little worked up and he said "Look *******, we're stopping and profiling all outlaw bikers, OK?"
"Wow!" my Brother replied, "When did you guys outlaw me?"
That did it. He spent over an hour on the side of the highway, while some female officers took his OL into a squad car where they brow-beat her, telling her that her life was in danger, that she was gonna end up strung out on dope, whoring her ass out on a streetcorner, or getting beat to death by her Ol' Man, who was obviously a dangerous criminal. They told her that if she would just co-operate they would make sure she got into a shelter, and protect her from her Ol' Man.
After they finally gave up and let them go, they came out to the party site, and we all had a good laugh about it. As far as I know, the two of them are still happily together, working steady jobs, etc..
Respects,
Roadrash

[Maico Shark]

Man that really sucks!!! Quit sellin her butt and thumpin her's bad enuff but gettin reglar jobs...thats really the pits. dam cops and there fear tactics

[JimmyAcorn]

The club is running thru a small town in Indiana one day. It was a fund raiser and there was a check point there (O.K. it was a bar). Apparently there was a town rally of some sorts and all the H.S. cheerleaders were out. Oh yeah...........

One of the brothers (NoName) on a three wheeler decided to show off a bit and brought up the front end as we rode into town. Most of us went inside the local tavern (checkpoint). A few minutes went by and another brother came up to me, "Boss, we got a problem outside".

Ouside I see that NoName is up against the squad car of the local police and he's handcuffed. I walked up and asked the problem and the cop asked, "His he one of yours"? to which I replied in the affirmative. Apparently they were upset with the antics he pulled heading into town. They smelled alcohol, he blew for 'em right there and passed the test, but they wanted to haul him in for something. I don't know why unless it was that NoName could be pretty ****y and they just didn't like him. But one of the other cops told the other that they couldn't charge him with anything, not even reckless op. Seems the three wheeler is considered a motorcycle in Indiana at the time. And while it was considered illegal for a motorcycle to be running down the highway on one wheel it wasn't technically illegal to do a wheelie for the trike because it had two wheels on the pavement. Plus, the cops didn't want to look bad for harrassing bikers who were on a charity run for a local kid.

I'm sure they figured they could get NoName for driving under the influence but he passed the field breathilizer and sobriety test. And honestly, I dont' know how he passed that breathilizer test. And of course he just couldn't let it go either. When the officer took off the cuffs, NoName practically got nose to nose with the one LEO and said, "Thanks for being stand-up. Let's go hammer a few". It didn't take but a fraction of a second for me to grab his arm and whisk him outta there. Durn fool. I half expected the LEO's to be waiting for us later that day but the rest of the day was cool.

As for NoName; the club didn't let him off that easy. We didn't do anything about the way he rode into town but for what he did when they took the cuffs off. Most cops I've dealt with would've hauled his ass away and we would've had to care for his motorcycle or bail him out or whatever. While we take care of our own, we DO expect club members to understand how their behaviour is going to affect the rest of us. NoName didn't think of that and we simply gave him a little something to remind him. Though not much for LEO's myself, sometimes we get what we deserve.

Peace

[jdog109socal]

Originally Posted by JimmyAcorn

Haaaaaaaa.......you're just wanting controversey eh Maiko?! O.K. Here goes!!

I'm not a fan of LEO's for two reasons:

1. They are cops 24/7.
2. If they aren't cops 24/7 they're not doing their job.

My experience is that they will find any excuse to stop who looks to be an "old school" biker. I got pulled over (was riding alone) in the daytime during Sturgis bikeweek in S. Dakota (quite a few years ago) on I-90. Trooper going west turned around and came after me (going east) and pulled me over because my "handle bars are too high". Well, they weren't too high and I showed him as such sitting on my bike that they were not above my shoulders. So then he says, "you need to sit up straight" and he started to walk back to his car.

Well, being a bit of an antagonistic I said,
"Come on now, why'd you really pull me over?" (he never said a thing about my 1-1/2" drag pipes btw)

He replied, "I don't normally see that bandana riding alone". Well, my bandana wasn't indicative of any motorcycle club, just a color. While he may have felt justified in pulling me over, the fact is that from his initial vantage point I wasn't doing anything illegal and there was no justification for doing so. He could have given me a ticket for my drag pipes had he wanted to but his intent wasn't to ticket me but to make a bigger bust. Had I been a "bigger bust" there's no doubt in my mind his report would've justified the initial stop.

Its a job and some one has to do it.... And cops dont pull people over unless they have done something wrong... By the way after market pipes are illegal.... here is a sugestion dont do anything wrong to bring attention to yourself.... keep in mind all they need is probable cause to pull you over and then they just go from there... There ar many things that most of dont know for instance, a sticker on you windshield or loud pipes or a crack in your windshield, things we think dont matter is a case of probable cause... It's never any fun getting pulled over, im there with you... But think if we didnt have any leos out there.. we be in the Mad Max era...

Jdog

[rocksolid]

Sorry Jdog, I've been pulled over for no particular reason. (As have several of my friends.) When they can't find a reason sometimes they make one up!
I'll agree that we need them, but like owning a guard dog, they are great as long as someone else is getting bit!
Rocksolid

Originally Posted by jdog109socal

.. And cops dont pull people over unless they have done something wrong...
... But think if we didnt have any leos out there.. we be in the Mad Max era...

Jdog

[JimmyAcorn]

Originally Posted by jdog109socal

Its a job and some one has to do it.... And cops dont pull people over unless they have done something wrong... By the way after market pipes are illegal.... here is a sugestion dont do anything wrong to bring attention to yourself.... keep in mind all they need is probable cause to pull you over and then they just go from there... There ar many things that most of dont know for instance, a sticker on you windshield or loud pipes or a crack in your windshield, things we think dont matter is a case of probable cause... It's never any fun getting pulled over, im there with you... But think if we didnt have any leos out there.. we be in the Mad Max era...

Jdog

Oh come on now!!! You really can't believe the notion that cops have to have a reason to pull you over! Furthermore, why would anyone want to live life in the shadows? I like apehangers. If they're illegal I'll take my chances. I like drag pipes and I try to be considerate when it comes to disturbing others. If they're illegal I'll take my chances. I TAKE responsibility for everything I do. I don't hide in the shadows of life just because someone may not like what I do, what I look like, or who I am.

Personally I really don't have anything against LEO's but I don't hang out with 'em. They have their own close knit band of brothers and that's fine with me. If they're cops 24/7 then they're doing their job and I know that job is stressful enough that there is going to be the occasional prick in their midst. If we cross paths I'll take my chances but I ain't avoiding him. If a LEO is a hippocrit he's worse than any lowlife biker I've ever known and he's more dangerous. So, it's nothing personal against cops. It's the nature of the beast. It's the human condition in a position of control and authority and that is always unpredicatable. Don't think for one minute that some jerk of a LEO won't pull you over for no reason and commence to pounding the crap out of you.

Peace

[jdog109socal]

Originally Posted by JimmyAcorn

Oh come on now!!! You really can't believe the notion that cops have to have a reason to pull you over! Furthermore, why would anyone want to live life in the shadows? I like apehangers. If they're illegal I'll take my chances. I like drag pipes and I try to be considerate when it comes to disturbing others. If they're illegal I'll take my chances. I TAKE responsibility for everything I do. I don't hide in the shadows of life just because someone may not like what I do, what I look like, or who I am.

Personally I really don't have anything against LEO's but I don't hang out with 'em. They have their own close knit band of brothers and that's fine with me. If they're cops 24/7 then they're doing their job and I know that job is stressful enough that there is going to be the occasional prick in their midst. If we cross paths I'll take my chances but I ain't avoiding him. If a LEO is a hippocrit he's worse than any lowlife biker I've ever known and he's more dangerous. So, it's nothing personal against cops. It's the nature of the beast. It's the human condition in a position of control and authority and that is always unpredicatable. Don't think for one minute that some jerk of a LEO won't pull you over for no reason and commence to pounding the crap out of you.

Peace

Im with you on the loud pipes i have them... But here in Ca. they are illegal, Back in the 80's i got a ticket for to loud pipes... I stuffed with steel wool and went down got it signed off..lol
Im also not say they wont pull you over with out a reason, but Legally they need probable cause, ilegaly

Yes they are a cop 24/7 but i have seen many that bend the rules while not on duty....

Jdog

[TFee3]

When I first saw the title of this new thread, I thought I might learn something of laws that I didn't know existed, since I plan on traveling on my bike next summer. BUT - it seems this thread is turning into a long line of complaints against law officers. I've never understood why a decent looking guy who goes to work in nice clothes dresses like he's a wino off the street who just happened to jump on a bike when he rides. I don't judge other riders by the way they dress, but it's obvious law enforcement does. Guys who dress like that when they ride think they're looking different, but in actuality, they look just like a bunch of others. It just doesn't make sense to me to draw attention to oneself like that. If you dress in such a manner as to look suspicious to law enforcement, then live with it. It's not their fault you dress like that. And, I'm NOT a cop and never have been. A little common sense goes a long way.

[JimmyAcorn]

Originally Posted by TFee3

When I first saw the title of this new thread, I thought I might learn something of laws that I didn't know existed, since I plan on traveling on my bike next summer. BUT - it seems this thread is turning into a long line of complaints against law officers. I've never understood why a decent looking guy who goes to work in nice clothes dresses like he's a wino off the street who just happened to jump on a bike when he rides. I don't judge other riders by the way they dress, but it's obvious law enforcement does. Guys who dress like that when they ride think they're looking different, but in actuality, they look just like a bunch of others. It just doesn't make sense to me to draw attention to oneself like that. If you dress in such a manner as to look suspicious to law enforcement, then live with it. It's not their fault you dress like that. And, I'm NOT a cop and never have been. A little common sense goes a long way.

I think "Bikers and the Law" is pretty self-explanatory. "Motorcyle Laws" might be appropriate for what you were looking for if that topic exists.

Anyway, I'm not so sure this thread is simply a list of complaints about cops, but more a reflection of how we "bikers" perceive and understand a relationship between bikers and the law. Per my post I certainly concur that ultimately we (bikers) should be held accountable for our behaviour. Conversely, LEO's should by now realize that bikers who seemingly present the "outlaw" image, aren't criminals until proven to be criminals and that the "image" is, in this day and age, the continuation of the American Folklore image propagated (marketted) by every major motorcycle manufacturer.

Look at it this way. "You meet the nicest people on a Honda", though a creative marketing slogan in it's day, (yes I'm old still) just didn't have the staying (image) power that Harley's bad boy outlaw image had. Hell, Harley didn't even have to WORK at marketting that image. There was even a time not too long ago that HD considered an attempt to dispel such an image. Lucky for them it didn't work because that American Folklore image in and of itself is a cash magnet. Consider all the uses of "The Open Road" and the word "Freedom" and the strings in advertising that draw us "Away from the mainstream", etc.

When you think of everything associated with motorcycles and the outlaw image and the bucks generated it's just damn cool. It's phenomenonally cool in fact. It's the most powerfully cool there is when something can create a whole new lifetyle, set of rules (waving ), desire, dreams, and passion for millions of people. How cool is it when someone says, "My GOAL is to own a Harley Davidson" or any motorcycle.

Since 1961 I've been riding motorcyles. Ya know what? I'm part of that "cooooooool" and I couldn't be more blessed if I were the Pope. Cops recognize the Pope. When are they going to understand that it's just about being "coooooooool" and not being criminal?
Peace

[TFee3]

Jimmy, I have to agree with you on all of your points, but one. And, I guess it's my age and white collar background saying this, to be honest. I don't think it's at all cool, as you say, to look like a bum riding down the road. At the same time, you're certainly correct that NOBODY should be thought of as a criminal just because of the way they're dressed! In 1963, I bought a brand new Pontiac convertible that was baby blue and really sharp. I was dressed to go to work (before I got a white collar job) in my dirty old levis and sweatshirt when I stopped in at the dealer's to have them look at my new car. I got back in my new car and was going to drive out of the service garage. The guy wouldn't let me out!! I'm sure he was thinking I was stealing the car. I told him to open the *#$*@ door, or I'd park it right there and go get in my old Oldsmobile, and they could shove the Pontiac. He opened the door. So, I certainly understand what you're saying.

[JimmyAcorn]

Cool is in the eyes of the beholder my friend. Personally, and it's probably my age as well, I don't give a rat's derriere what anyone thinks of me or my lifestyle. As far as the "bum" thing goes ya just don't judge a man that way. It's a personal perception of an individual that doesn't mean a thing. You're story about the Pontiac is proof of that. If I've got 1,500 miles of a 2,000 mile trip under my belt I'm gonna look ragged as hell. Someone calls me a bum there's an ass whipping in the making; mine or his it don't matter to me. While respect may be something a person has to earn, disrespect shouldn't come out of nowhere either. Everyone, and I mean everyone, deserves the benefit of doubt. Hell, there are a lot of bums I take a shine to anyway.

[TFee3]

Jimmy, I hope you're merely reinforcing everything I said, because I agree with you completely! As far as the ass whipping, you might want to be careful. In my old age, I've discovered (sometimes the hard way) that size makes no difference. And, I just thought of something else - not trying to argue, but if you don't care what people think of you, then why would you get upset about someone calling you a bum?!?!

[Maico Shark]

As I said, I started this forum by request. So far no one has started a thread about a law or other aspect. Everyones just been posting on the starter thread. It doesn't matter to me what we discuss here but please start a new thread for each new story/point of interest.

[JimmyAcorn]

Originally Posted by TFee3

Jimmy, I hope you're merely reinforcing everything I said, because I agree with you completely! As far as the ass whipping, you might want to be careful. In my old age, I've discovered (sometimes the hard way) that size makes no difference. And, I just thought of something else - not trying to argue, but if you don't care what people think of you, then why would you get upset about someone calling you a bum?!?!

Yeah, what you said, "reinforcing".

"Careful"? Ha!! If I was careful I wouldn't have had MY ass whipped as many times as I have.
There's a difference in not caring what people think of you and answering a challenge of sorts. I'm gonna call a dude out to explain himself when he acts like a dick (no offense to anyone named Richard) at my expense is all. Actually I'm not a big, tough, guy looking for fist-a-cuffs. I'm really NOT very good at it cause I just don't think I'm mean enough and chances are it won't go well I suppose but yeah, I've been whipped before. It's a dumb reason to go to battle anyway.

Peace

[JimmyAcorn]

Originally Posted by Maico Shark

As I said, I started this forum by request. So far no one has started a thread about a law or other aspect. Everyones just been posting on the starter thread. It doesn't matter to me what we discuss here but please start a new thread for each new story/point of interest.

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign. O.K. boss; upward and onward.

Peace