Motorcycle Forum banner

How long do Motorcycle engines last?

214K views 61 replies 38 participants last post by  mike721 
#1 ·
Id like to know about the average life time of a motorcycle engine. I realize they are cheaper than cars, but if you have to buy a new engine every 50,000 miles or so it can probably be about the same once you factor in the risk.

I have read some forums where people have asked how many miles for example on a Honda 250 Rebel. The most I saw there was around 45,000 miles.

So does the size of the engine = the life of the bike?

Do 250cc regularly never go past 50,000 miles if properly taken care of?

Does that mean 500cc can go around 100,000+?

What determines how long the engine will last on a motorcycle.

My 1995 Chev Camaro has 320,000 miles on it, still works fine although I can tell the engine is on its last 50,000 or so before I probably need to replace it. Still, Thats a lot of miles on it.

I drive it every week day Monday - Friday 50 miles round trip from home to school.
 
See less See more
#33 · (Edited)
Life Span?

Also consider this... What does lifespan really mean?

IF you do all the oil changes on your engine + valve adjustment as scheduled. But you do not replace engine parts. Tappets, OIl seals, etc, etc, etc, The engine will give out because the wear on tear on metal is permanent, not like animals where we heal (Obviously). SO eventually it'll die.... IF its not worked on

BUT If you end up replacing parts as needed/schedualed with a good mechanic. Than the engine will just last as long as its worked on. The Block itself doesn't get worn away (Maybe the outside+rust, but even that should outlast you) Pistons will eventually wear out and the Cylinder sleeves as well. BUT yeah, keep working on the engine parts with maintenance... the Block itself will last forever. SO down 250,000 miles (depending on the bike you have) There will be some replaced parts that are not original.

So That's my view on "Life" Span


Edit: I was very tired writing this, i hope it makes sense lol.
 
#34 · (Edited)
I would consider lifespan to be miles before a major rebuild and mostly original engine parts. There is some grey area there as well.

There are a few motorcycles out there with over a million miles, but many of the parts have been changed out and rebuilt several times.

Harley Davidson has a program where you can have your engine factory rebuilt for around $3000.
 
#35 ·
You also have to consider the value of the motorcycle itself when making engine repairs too. There comes a point for many bikes when the cost of repairing a damaged motor far exceeds the value of the bike as a whole, so off to the scrapyard it goes. A lot of otherwise repairable and ridable bikes are taken out of circulation for that reason. If it stays around long enough though, some bikes will again rise in value and desirability to the point where it's again worth repairing them. If you have a Harley or an older British bike then that value is almost a sure thing, but on some other brands it can be a little dicey.
 
#36 ·
You're generally correct about Sportster values, however, it depends on the condition of the bike, and the desirability of the bike. (Any bike.) A 1974 H2 here, in average condition, just sold for 5.5k. A 1966 Sportster in good original (but not pristine) condition just sold for 9.8k. A decent XLCR can run you 20k. These are all exceptions and are not at all common.

But the fact is more Sportsters of any given year survived then other brands. If you don't believe they were built better then you have to admit they were more valued. The fact is most Japanese bikes reached a point and were tossed. Many more Harleys reached the same point and were kept and resold, simply because they were Harleys.

So now you can buy hand-fulls of ragged-out Ironhead Sportsters from the 70's for about 3k each, many less. You can buy most ragged out Japanese bikes from the 70's for well under a grand, if you can find one. Sure, you can find examples of certain very sought after Japanese bikes that will sell for more then many Harley's, but as a general rule a Harley will hold more value for much longer then most Japanese bikes in similar condition. It's just the way it is.
 
#45 · (Edited)
This is a subject that's fascinated me for the last 45 years. Having been a self-employed motor mechanic specialising mainly in Citroens, an engine found in many models - the XUD diesel engine - is renown for its ability to do 400,000+ miles. However, most large commercial diesel engines are in their first flush of youth at this distance. At the other extreme Barry Sheene's RG500 engine needed a rebuild after every race meeting.

The Forum on US Website 'Bob is the Oil Guy' has many discussions on the effects of different brands of oil & oil filters with regards to engine longevity. They, in some instances, also splash out around $40 to have their old engine oil analyzed to molecular level to look out for traces of crankshaft bearing, piston ring and other worn away material in suspension. I believe they use mass spectrometry to look out for high levels undesireable metals from abnormal engine wear in the hope of preventative maintenance saving both time and money when vehicles are in the workshop being repaired...

In the British motorcycle press, there were several articles in the 1990s that featured high-mileage - mostly Japanese - examples. They'd strip the bike to component level and assess the effects of high mileage on engine. clutch and gearbox components. A memorable issue featured a 1991 Yamaha FZ1000 Exup which was disassembled after 150.000 miles. It was a despatch rider's bike that had a hard life being thrashed around London. This engine has around 120bhp/litre and with five valves/cylinder it does, in some way, resemble a fine Swiss timepiece. A loud one. But there was no discernable wear on any engine or transmission component. Even the camshaft drive - a chain - was still well within serviceable limits. Honing cross-hatching was still all very visible. The 'lip' where the piston rings do not sweep was simply not there. An excellent engine that shows how far mass-production technology has enabled extreme performance along with outstanding reliability to go hand in hand. Finally, there are high-tech 'treatments' that impart a 'diamond-like' hardness to components that are subject to extreme pressure and undesireable scuffing during normal operation. Nissan uses a Japanese company to manufacture a few of their engines. The supercharged Micra engine is made by them. It has this diamond-like hardness surface treatment on the cam-lobe followers amongst other components. I once calculated that if a cam-follower had this surface teatment, then it would still be servicable if it had been in continuous use from the times of Jesus. 2,000 years of service and the part would not show appreciable wear. But this is only a claim from the manufacturer :) And the equipment to treat your components is around $120k upwards. But you can get companies to treat individual components. Around $500 for the most vulnerable parts in a four-cylinder 4-stroke engine.

So how long do motorcycle engines last? Between 500 and 3000,000 miles is my guess?
 
#46 · (Edited)
I used to build both car and bike engines and no idea how many I did. The Yamaha followup teardown WOULD have found wear if I for one did it, it being impossible to go that long with that kind of advertised no wear at all. Valves wear and no engine on earth that doesn't and the cam chain may seem to still be new (if you don't measure for length they ALWAYS look new) but the tensioners I note not a word said about, they go first. I would have found wear on the rings and bore too, impossible not to at that mileage, I do cars routinely that go 300K miles and find it all over the place. I can find it at under 100K or even 50K miles easily.

Too much talk about diamond hard coatings but no sense applied to it. When you run a super hard surface the surface running against it MUST be softer or instant destruction results. A rule of metallurgy. Maybe not much difference but some. Equal hardness materials tend to seize when running on each other. Why you have aluminum cases with iron parts moving in them. The softer material is the one that wears.

Oldschool aircooled bikes if 2 strokes may make 30K miles driven sedately, they wear out fastest as the oil is cut by gasoline to make engine die faster. 4 stroke 40K to up to 100K miles if driven by a very conservative driver. When both go to water cooling the engine life goes way up. Again it goes way up with computer control because the tightened fuel control saves massive amounts of wear. I wouldn't be surprised at modern water cooled EFI bike going 300K miles if driven carefully and driver does not use the massive power they make now a lot, the rings die much faster when you load the engines hard. Valves too and mainly exhaust.

'there was no discernable wear on any engine or transmission component.'

Look closer, it IS there. To not see it on trans gears means somebody had eyes closed, trans gears will show running wear in an hour of driving. And absolutely no way to not have a lip at top ring travel end. there is ALWAYS one made of carbon if nothing else. You will ALWAYS have cylinder wall crosshatching at the bottom of cylinder where there is no load too, mentioning that means nothing to me. You look close at the ring face to determine wear and the mark of it will always be there.

OP brings up Nissan, a pretty much **** company and look how much trouble they have had with those diamond coatings ruining massive numbers of engines when they defected way early, take the 1.8 engines that got replaced by the hundreds for it. And all the ones that they refused to change that died early without getting anywhere near the life they should have had. Those same coatings are failing over and over now on the CVT transmissions they put out and a massive debacle there too. Thousands dead early and some as soon as 30K miles.

Yes, the technology makes things last longer but only spotty as they keep introducing new ways to fail them early daily.

I've got one of the diamond plated engines in mine and not pleased with how quick the engine went to using oil, not bad but older technology would not have been that bad. And have another with the CVT trans, and already showing slight troubles at 35K miles showing it will likely fail before 100K. Again, trouble with the hardening process being used to circumvent using harder steels that are hard all the way through instead of just surface hardening that wears through too quick to bring the device down early.

Now you can pick a 500K car out of any batch but in no way does it mean the others will go that long, but the ads will tell you they will.
 
#47 ·
Furthermore, regarding maximum engine longevity, there is research into the optimal time to do oil & filter changes. For example, the filtration peformance of a standard canister type of oil filter will actually increase as the hrs of use goes up. Engine oil has the ability to go much further than many owners believe. The 1,000 miles oil change is simply wasting money for motorcycles that are not used for competition. The 'sweet spot' to change oil & filter on a modern sports motorcycle can easily be as much as 5k miles and up to 10k in some instances. Have a look at Bob is the Oil Guy. Many articles are straight from the horse's mouth. That is from people who do & understand the scientific research of the interaction of the surfaces in motion events that happen within your engine.

My earlier post was meant to be read as a light-hearted piece, rather than being a serious technical paper. The diamond-like carbon coatings Are Often Used in the oil drilling industry to reduce friction, rather than as an anti-wear treatment. Of course component failure is frequently down to metal fatigue and sometimes simply poor design rather than outright wear. It's a costly treatment, but you I found a company in Cults, Aberdeen that did some TZ250S clutch basket & crankshaft parts for me.
You could say that any engine will show signs of wear, even after its very first use. And the 20-valve 150k mile Yamaha engine mentioned will certainly show wear on ever single component that is driven by another part as engine oil will never truly keep them from mutual contact. My mistake. I should not make sweeping statements :)
Of course a 150k miles engine will display evidence

The point of those old motorbike articles was to show how remarkable modern design & tehnology is, as well as how far it has progressed in only the last century or so. Yes the engine was worn, but everything was still well within the manufacturer's tolerances as stated in the Yamaha service manual. I think the clutch plates were the only part they replaced when it was put back together. Even the piston rings had end gaps that would be OK on a new engine.

Don't talk to me about CVT transmission. In the early 1990s British car auction houses usually had at least one Ford Fiesta that hadn't reached 10k miles and needed new variator belts. They were a bad idea when DAF began using them on their horizontal twin-cylinder engine and they still are. I am currently rebuilding a MINI Cooper S engine for my sister. It's completed less than 65k miles, but I am still very tempted to do the CVT belts whilst I have the car.

I realise that my posts are written badly. English is not my first langauge :)

Thank you for your reply. It is an interesting read.
 
#49 ·
The 1,000 miles oil change is simply wasting money for motorcycles that are not used for competition. The 'sweet spot' to change oil & filter on a modern sports motorcycle can easily be as much as 5k miles and up to 10k in some instances.
Probably a fair comment.

My Aprilia Shiver 750ABS owners and workshop manual recommend 20T oil/filter changes with a mineral oil. I still change at round 1.5K...as I have done for 50 years - but since starting to use fully synth, I'm now going for 5K oil/filter changes.

Font Screenshot Parallel Number Rectangle



An old biker told me when I first started riding that an oil change is always cheaper than an engine rebuild.

I've stuck with that philosophy all my riding life.
 
#48 ·
You are fine and your english is as well. My point is mainly that the average car will go great distances now but too many of them do not and much of that is because the industry does lots of things to keep them together longer then they intentionally design things in that are bad to now get more parts sales. The engineers are commonly used for that more than fixing the cars now, which they play games with commonly to get the design through the mill until they can get another design out to begin the whole thing all over. I can look at part after part to predict where it will fail and 'surprise' when later on it does just exactly as expected, the parts are designed to fail way on out but fail nonetheless. This is on cars mainly as I pulled away from bikes for a while but it would not surprise me to see the same thing. There is a new class of parts I call nuisance parts too, they are designed to not bring the vehicle down, rather to add together as parts typically that less than fastidious owners will overlook repairing 'until they decide to do it', meaning never, and the parts stack up then to have the owner conclude it is better to get a new car than to drive the clunker his vehicle has turned into. Why? Because the cars now last too long and the dealers need the money so other ways to get it have been invented.

FYI, I ran single weight conventional oils like forever (30+ years) and could not kill engines doing it. Then the EPA forced changes to remove the zinc and why I used single weights, they carried more of it. Next thing I find is the newer oils still being conventional are acting weird, they seem to be lasting much longer at oil changes like they are synthetic! I run super cheap Walmart oil and change it at 10K oil changes now and still can't kill the engines. I strongly suspect the oil companies while looking for the replacement for zinc had some trouble getting cost under control and may have slipped some synthetic technology into the normal conventional oils but they will kill to not let that one out. The major difference in syn oil is how long it lasts under heat and the conventionals now are lasting longer than they used to, I have compared my older oil drains at 6K miles and they are dirtier than the 10K ones now. Not very scientific but then I believe what I see before I believe what somebody will tell me.

Just so you know, I repair all my vehicles car or other, I have never paid for any car or bike repair ever. Everything that can be done I do myself, I never let dealers do anything to my things. I consider warranties worthless and haven't paid for it yet. Some day I may regret it but today is not that day. I typically fix at one tenth to one hundreth of what a dealer charges. I strive to make for myself the equivalent of at least $75/hr, in pay not paid out and I often go so far past that the numbers get stupid silly. Typical being $500/hr. and up to $3000 before. It comes from my background in racing, when I got married I turned it all inward to work to my best benefit, OCD in perfectionism will drive one mad but it can be warped into a useful tool.
 
#51 ·
Any of the big 4 Motorbike engines are well designed & are put through destructive testings before they hit the market
& even these testings let some errors through, so as long as you get any bike that isn't a 1st motor design to hit the market?
& it's errors have been designed out of them, like usually the 4th or 5th model, you will most likely end up with
a bike where you keep it serviced up? & care for it? 100000K's trouble free engine wise is usually the norm.
 
#54 ·

Once saw an aftermarket turbocharged Kawi LTD 900 with over 100K. The bike was said to have been ridden through Death Valley. My friend bought it, took off the turbo, gave it to his business partner and as far I as know, it's still running... somewhere.

Those are very special Kawasaki classics, 'cause the cosmetics are partially hand built. They were, sort of, a styling prototype by Kawasaki, to see how cruiser style bikes would be received. Because of that, maybe the factory balanced and blueprinted the engine? It's been done before in the automobile industry.
 
#55 ·
Uh, here in Fort Worth they used the KZ1000 as police bikes and routinely rebuilt them every 50K miles, the tensioners would be dead by then with the rubber cracking off the blades to then let the chains flop loose. Then the middle roller sprocket died and engine blows up. The 1000 is actually more reliable than the 900.

The engines only balance to within 5 grams and that is NOT a custom balance job. You get a matched weight set of rods and that is NOT balancing either.

Most bikes have used custom hand applied cosmetics for many years...........er, the decals. Nothing special there.
 
#56 · (Edited)
I should point out that the Z900 motors use roller cranks too and low pressure oil pumps with maybe 20 psi output, turbos typically failed left and right there as they use plain bearings that pretty much require a lot more oil pressure, like 50+ psi. Why turbo nuts of the times quickly moved on to other engines with plain bearings to work better with turbos.

So once again reality and the dream world clash.
 
#59 ·
LOL...........and the PRICE and not needed unless one is using a turbo, useless on a stock Z. You simply baffle the OEM oil pan and solved ages ago. The cavitation issue taken care of by simply grinding grooves inside oil pump housing. That pump will only waste 5 hp. driving it.
 
#61 ·
I remember people tearing up turbos until the 650-750 came out which had a high pressure pump to go with the plain bearing crank. Then they last. That was when the super small turbo rage began, using smaller turbos than had previously been used to get much more spoolup quick with zero lag.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top