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Burned out my clutch control

9K views 44 replies 8 participants last post by  Critter 
#1 ·
Hello everyone ---

I had a good learning experience today, and I really please want some tips from anyone on how to prevent this again in the future.

I went on a beautiful ride for 250 miles today (I'm the one that posted about my upcoming trip to Los Angeles in another post). Much better experience today, than my last 200+ mile trip. I should have stopped when I had enough fun for the day. But, I took it a step too far (I guess that's my nature).

I'm sure you've all heard of Lombard Street in San Francisco, as it's the crookedest street in the world. Well, on my way to that street, the other side of Lombard street is a very steep uphill (this was my 1st time up Lombard street on a motorcycle). There was a lot of traffic congestion on the uphill part. What ended up happening was that I was working my clutch & my throttle; but because there was so much traffic in front of me on the steep uphill, I had to give it a lot more throttle than usual to keep myself from rolling downhill. What ended up happening was that I took the throttle too far, and I started smelling smoke. At that point, my clutch didn't engage anymore. And, I was suddenly screwed in the middle of the hill. I shut my engine off and tried to maneuver my motorcycle at an angle to try to go downhill, but I had difficulty because of the weight (the Sporster Superlow weighs about 560 pounds, and I weigh 150 pounds) & I ended up tipping over & falling on Lombard street. Luckily, I wasn't hurt, and I have an engine guard. I had a few scratches on my hardcase saddlebags. Nothing major.

It looks like the mistake I made was giving too much throttle without engaging the clutch enough. I would have engaged the clutch more, but there was a car ahead of me that was rolling backward a little each time it was trying to go forward. That made me panic a little, by keeping my throttle high but not letting the clutch go enough.

If anyone has any thoughts on what I should do different next time, please advise. Thank you.

RK
 
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#29 ·
I can definitely understand why you would have misinterpreted that information. The way I read that phrase from the msf course is that you can use the clutch to keep the bike from rolling backwards after you release the front brake, and then you start rolling on the throttle, getting the bike moving, and releasing the clutch.

What they don't clarify is that time after releasing the front brake is a second or milliseconds. You have to remember that the booklet is designed for a new rider, so everything is broken down step by step. When you become proficient, starting on an incline is one continuous action. When I start out on a hill, I'm releasing the front brake and picking my feet up all while rolling on the throttle and putting the clutch in the friction zone. It's more like one action, but it has to be broken down step by step for a new rider.
 
#30 · (Edited)
RK thanks for this thread.. i finished my MSF course about 2 months ago.. and i was also under the same impression from the teachings.. i am never in neutral (Escape Ready) and i am always using my friction zone to hold the bike in place ..

This thread has me re evaluting that.. thanks

Edit: as a side note i was actually told during class not to worry about pulling the clutch all the way in , or letting it all the way out.. stay in the friction zone while doing slow moving manuvers and stops.
 
#31 ·
Good information.

Destroying clutches is a common mistake for new riders.

Can be an expensive mistake.

I'm still stunned at how many hold the clutch in at a stop signs (bad bad bad)
we've had this discussion before and I'll keep my bike in gear at a stop with the clutch pulled in every time. I'd rather be able to move out of the way of a car failing to stop behind me thanks. Leaving the bike in neutral isn't a good way to get started in a hurry if you need to.
 
#32 · (Edited)
And that is your right, it is bad for the bike, and you know it.

I'm not a paranoid rider, not a lot of riding drama here in St. Joe -

And I keep an eye on what is going on, so no concerns on my part.

Freaks me out a bit you are so worried about being hit, you do know what the odds are, right?

For example, the odds are that you will commit suicide before you get killed in a motorcycle accident.
looks like I'm not alone.

http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?t=84791

also, I'm not talking about holding the bike in place with the clutch. Clutch lever fully pulled in and rear brake is holding the bike in place. But yes, I'm not sitting in neutral unless there's already a car stopped behind me and it's a very long light.
 
#33 ·
I think the difference of opinion here is related to the fact I'm more concerned with my personal safety and not being hit while on the bike than I am about a mechanical part or a repair bill.

2012 Ninja 650, feel free. I'm not calling you a prick btw, I disagree with you because I feel that advising a new rider to leave the bike in neutral isn't a safe thing to do at a stop light with the large amount of distracted drivers on the road. I'm very very used to people here rolling up to a stop at high speeds only to slam on the brakes at the last moment and end up less than 3-4 feet from my rear wheel (or bumper when in the car)
 
#34 ·
I must admit I drive differently around home, which is very rural, than I do when we drive in the suburbs of St. Louis. I refuse to drive downtown in St. Louis. I will drive on the interstate bypass, but NOT in that city. But in the suburbs I will watch what is going on behind me much closer. Around home lots of times my husband & I are the only vehicles at the light. That makes a big difference. I still watch behind me but not as critically. Still, I'm in 1st gear with my clutch pulled all the way in.
 
#35 ·
comments like that when read make me think you're just trying to start something. So 77 out of 95 people believe they're safer sitting in gear at a light with the clutch pulled in, but that means 77 out of 95 people can't ride? When someone's coming at you and likely to hit you, would you rather have 1 second to react or 2 seconds? I'd rather have as much time as possible to make a move and get out of the way. If trying to ride safely means I don't know how to ride, then kudos to you. I wasn't calling you a prick before but with responses like that, rather than address the safety aspect, certainly make you appear to be one.

thought you were going to tell me how i was damaging my 650?
 
#36 ·
You made it clear that you do not give a **** about your bike and are far more concerned with safety.

I've got a few moments to log into the dealer site and pull the information, I'll be back shortly.

I could download the factory service manual for you at the same time, but that does not seem applicable at this time.
I have the factory service manual. And I fully believe from talking with the dealer and other motorcyclists, the "damage" you are speaking of is extremely minor wear and tear, which hardly seems worth risking the extra time to not be prepared to move out of the way of a collision. That being said, I'm certainly not a mechanic, so I'm curious to see how much value you put on a replacement part over your health and safety.
 
#37 ·
39, not made of money, practical about my approach to safety on the bike. I'm curious, are you a mechanic? Because my mechanic, along with a host of others have all told me that what you're claiming is overblown. Direct quote: if the clutch lever is fully pulled, there is no friction on the plates and it would be doing as much damage as sitting in neutral. So of all the people I've talked to today, you're the only one I've seen insisting this is bad for the bike. So what do you base this on?
 
#38 ·
interesting. So I'm now looking at over 30 responses to this question, and have yet to have one that agrees with you that this damages the clutch.

In fact, of the 4 mechanics that have replied (I'm including you in this number, although at this point I wouldn't let you near my bike), you're still the only one who suggests this. It was downright hilarious to two of them.

You don't have to worry about buying my bike, we're not in the same area. By that token, I'm glad I'll never have to worry about you working on it.
 
#39 ·
This debate between motohorseman & Islesfan91 has been interesting.

As with nearly everything in life, there usually isn't one definitively correct approach. Neither of you is totally correct, and neither of you is totally wrong.

There are times when I feel like holding my clutch in all the way & using my rear brake (now I'm doing that more on a hill), and there are times when I go to neutral at a stop (because traffic is going nowhere & I don't feel like fatiguing my left hand for 10 minutes by holding the clutch in all of the way).

So, it's a judgment call & it depends on numerous factors at that moment (fatigue, traffic, how steep the road is, etc...) Heck, a few weeks ago, the Chinese parade took place in San Francisco; you know what I did when the police was hand-directing traffic at Market street & told everyone on the road to stop for 15 minutes while the parade was passing through? I actually SHUT OFF MY ENGINE right in the middle of the road while the parade was passing through; I'm not going to sit there holding my clutch.

Thank you for this interesting debate. We're all trying to learn here, and there is no need for any animosity between users here. Neither of you is totally correct or totally wrong.

RK
 
#40 · (Edited)
just for extra info, a few of the responses I've gathered to the question:

The clutch will not wear appreciably when fully disengaged at a light. Even over a 20 year lifetime of a bike... you'd not have to replace the clutch due to this practice. A single race/aggressive start will wear the clutch a thousand times more at least.

Most people seem to agree: stay in gear, wait till you have a nice safe buffer of cars stopped behind you if you feel the need to rest your hand/posture.
****

Worried about clutch wear ?

What kind of idiot worries about clutch wear ?

The guys mind must just about explode worrying about gasoline wear and tear as the fluid level drops. Then there is Key wear every time you have to open the tank cap , not to mention tank cap hinge wear and tear.... The stresses of riding must really be hard on some. (this is from a mechanic who owns his own shop)

****
I'm always in gear with right hand flashing brake light. I've never worried about clutch or had issues in two hundred thou kms.



- as to RK above, the reason this bothered me enough to ask others and debate it is that he is advocating what I believe to be an unsafe practice for a new rider, as this is in the new riders forum. Maybe he's in a place that isn't as busy as mine with traffic, and I know he's been riding for years longer than I, there's no question there. I would rather see new riders being taught safer practices rather than worrying about whether or not they may need to replace their clutch slightly sooner.

I would also suggest the damage a new rider does by riding the clutch will be a lot more than holding it in while waiting for a stop light.
 
#42 ·
That is hilarious, I would be too embarrased to ride with anyone that does that -

Has to be a joke, come on now!
and at this point, I'm realizing you're not someone I'd want advising me of motorcycle mechanics or safe riding tips. Clearly you've never ridden in traffic where drivers are texting or otherwise distracted and very often flashing the brake light as they're coming up behind you at a light catches their attention when they may otherwise miss noticing you.

Sorry you feel something that has value for safety as embarassing. Clearly you must have been one of the cool kids. I wouldn't ride with you or near you if you feel that looking cool is more important than not getting run over. I bought a bike because I enjoy riding, not because I want attention or to look cool. I'm done with this thread and I'm sure anyone who reads it will clearly see both points of view.
 
#43 ·
This debate has been quite interesting. I don't like to see people start to attack each other just at a difference of opinion.

My opinion on all of this: I definitely believe that motohorseman is right when it comes to increased clutch wear due to holding it in at a light. It makes perfect logical sense actually. The more you use the clutch and put stress on the rod, bearing, and springs, the sooner it will wear out. That's just mechanical fatigue. In fact, that is one of the reasons that I always put my bike in nuetral when I'll be stopped for a decent amount of time. Less wear and tear on the parts of my bike. And I definitely think that informing a new rider about something like this is important. How big of a deal is this extra wear? I don't know. Probably depends on the quality of the components that the manufacter uses. Anyways, I'd like my bike to last as long as possible, so that's my choice to reduce wear and tear.

On the other side, I can totally understand why some would want to keep the clutch pulled in. Gives you a split second more time to react in an emergency situation. So for a new rider, this probably is very useful advice until they become more comfortable on operating their bike and become aware of what hazards they should be looking for while on the road.

Both viewpoints are good for a new rider to know, and there is no right or wrong way, just the way that one chooses to do it. So I keep it in neutral when stopped, but if I see a car barrelling down on me, I'll shift into first just to be prepared if I do need to take action. Only takes a split second. And if all is well, shift back into neutral.

There's no need for personal attacks guys. Motohorseman puts out some facts, and if Islesfan prefers to put a little more wear and tear on his ride so that he can feel safer (and thus more comfortable = able to have more fun on the road) than that is his choice. That extra wear and tear may not even matter in the long haul. He may be trading in that bike long before the clutch would ever need service. Let's all play nice, mmmKay?
 
#44 ·
No problem. I believe it when you said you meant things in fun. It just appears that Islesfan definitely felt attacked for his opinion. When people get defensive, it drives people away from this forum, which I think is a great resource for lots of people. I've learned alot from starting out here 4 years ago. And I'll be honest, I can be a little sensitive at times, if I was either of you two (isles and motohorseman) I probably would have reacted in a similar manner.

Just wanted to point out as I saw it, as I don't want the banhammer to come out on anybody, especially when you both seem like pretty knowledgable people.

Alright enough of that touchy feeling stuff...the weather needs to get warmer so I can get out and ride!
 
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