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Water cooled Harley?

16K views 68 replies 30 participants last post by  Framemaker 
#1 ·
#11 ·
Meh... just get a feckin V-rod! To heck with liquid cooled heads. Go liquid cooling all the way.

In the end, HD will go all liquid cooling. Regulations will force it to happen. Might as well get it done, and do it now, instead of dragging azz about it.
 
#15 ·
Was reading about this on a news site and saw where they said

"One more significant item of note – Harley-Davidson‘s first liquid-cooled engines."

I was like "What?" Is the V-Rod not considered to be a Harley or something?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the V-Rod engine developed by Porsche, not Harley? I am certainly not an HD intellectual, but I thought I heard that when they first came out...
 
#24 ·
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the V-Rod engine developed by Porsche, not Harley? I am certainly not an HD intellectual, but I thought I heard that when they first came out...
They developed it with Porsche, but I believe it was based on their old VR1000 race engine they used for a bit.

Having to go liquid cooled is, at least as it seems right now, inevitable. Though, I expect them to resist as long as possible as it's not what their customers want for the most part.
The V-Rod engine was originally designed by Erik Buell. It was intended for a fully faired super-bike.

The liquid-cooled Harley V-Rod motor, developed by Harley-Davidson then made street legal according to the EPA by Porsche, was originally an Erik Buell project, designed for a fully faired AMA Superbike Buell by 1998.[8] Harley decided the engine should also be used in a sport-cruiser, then took over development, making it "too big, too heavy, too expensive and too late" for Buell.[8]
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buell_Motorcycle_Company#cite_ref-cw0510_8-29

There is also a video floating around where Erik takes some engineer students through his shop with the first prototype mounted on what looks like a Buell Tube frame chassis. That's why the first gen V-Rods were 1130cc instead of 1250cc... In Super-Bike V-Twins are allowed an extra 200cc to compensate for the lack of RPMs among other things....

On to the OP:

The new "air and precision cooled" bikes sound like a great compromise and should keep the "HD Purists" from freaking out....
 
#16 ·
They developed it with Porsche, but I believe it was based on their old VR1000 race engine they used for a bit.

Having to go liquid cooled is, at least as it seems right now, inevitable. Though, I expect them to resist as long as possible as it's not what their customers want for the most part.
 
#17 ·
They developed it with Porsche, but I believe it was based on their old VR1000 race engine they used for a bit.
.
^^^There it is. If you look at the VR1000 engine you can definitely see where the V-rod engine came from. (I've only seen pictures of the VR1000 and haven't seen an actual engine.) I was told that Porsche Engineering helped with the design of the heads and with the gear box.
 
#21 ·
I'm sure there are some folks that are groaning about it, but there's still a few around who think the Evo is a better motor then the TC, or that Harley reached the peak of motor design with the Shovel. (Or the Pan, or the Knuckle, or the...)

I haven't heard anything very negative from the people I know that are really into engines in general and Harley's in particular though. If anything it's been leaning a little towards the positive. It's still a beloved air cooled engine, they just added a common sense addition, and did it in a way that's pretty unique.

As for aftermarket heads, yeah, someone probably will come out with those, but I'm not so sure it would be a good idea. That's a big ole engine in that touring bike, and it's got a lot of extra weight to haul around and a lot of air-obstructing crappola...er.....fairings and lowers and such. I think a little cooling assist is a good thing.

Makes me wonder though, if they're going to be coming out soon with an even bigger engine for the touring class?
 
#22 ·
My HD riding friends seem "split" on it. Some are chomping at the bit to get on one, and think it's a great thing in the evolution of HD. Others are still complaining about HD putting EFI on their bikes, and still others won't ride anything with an EVO engine on it.

One thing is for certain...the aftermarket will very quickly make all kinds of mods available to appease the HD masses...
 
#23 ·
Harley is the only manufacturer that cannot do anything right in the eyes of anyone. If they stay retro, all non-HD riders fault them as old tech. If they try to do something more modern (Vrod, XR1200), HD fans fault them and don't buy the bikes. I think this precision liquid cooling (because it cools specific, precision points in the engine) is a perfect step toward the inevitable. Emission standards will continue to tighten, and they will have to go full liquid someday. But this is a big step in that direction, without upsetting the loyalists.
 
#35 ·
Rumour has it VRSC will be dis-continued after 2014 think "keith and the concentrated product".Agree with your "inevitable" comment its coming for sure.Plenty of manufacturers suffer the same plight as Harley from time to time think back to the release of the new Triumphs and all the foot stamping from so called purists,wasnt long before many of them were once again followers.
 
#25 ·
Lurch, you are right about that. HD will take a lot if heat this year, but with Victory and others making quality bikes HD had to step it up. I looked at some of the 14s and HD did a great job with them. All these great bikes make us the consumer the big winner no matter what you ride.
 
#26 ·
And while I think there are those HD purists out there that do not approve of the move to liquid cooling, I think HD is looking at the type of buyer who loves the traditional look, but isn't so particular on the whole air/oil/liquid cooling debate, and wants some of the higher tech mechanical and entertainment features found on other bikes.

It will be interesting to see what happens to the Sportster, Dyna and Softail lines - will some models remain air cooled, or will they also (eventually) go liquid cooled? With the lower fairing you can "camouflage" the radiator. On bikes without a lower fairing it will be much more obvious, unless the HD engineers have some tricks up their sleeves.
 
#27 ·
I still wonder why HD does not incorporate a subtle oil cooler into their bikes to help meet EPA regs. I think the oil cooler on Victorys are not too ubtrusive and Honda used one on the modern CB 1100. I still think of the CB 1100 as air cooled but it is oil and air cooled.
 
#29 ·
The biggest problem for air cooled engines is the temperature swing they have can be dramatic. This makes it hard to keep it in its efficiency sweet spot, for lack of a better term. The engines are also generally a bit more loose in tolerance to accommodate these drastic temperature swings. Add to that that with EPA regulation getting tighter and tighter, the engines need to start running leaner and leaner to meet them. At some point you start having issues with heat. Air cooled engines cannot dissipate the heat as well as liquid.

Some of these things can be helped with our modern technologies. But at some point it's just going to go all liquid, even if for an economic standpoint. Water cooling your engine is cheaper than developing and installing electrical sensors and computers, etc.
 
#45 ·
The plumbing picture is actually the water cooled head plumbing; not oil plumbing. There are three models that are partially water cooled, which they call "Twin Cooled": Ultra Limited, CVO, and the Trike. The rest are air/oil cooled as they always have been. The oil cooler isn't new - I think it started as standard equipment on the 2010 when the 103 became standard (I could be off a year) and its been available for a long time in the catalog. The CVO bikes have had an external oil cooler along with the police models standard for longer. The Street Glide you posted does not have this system.
 
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