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1986 Suzuki LS650 Savage Repair/Restore

81K views 119 replies 15 participants last post by  canadiansavage 
#1 ·
I thought I might as well start a new thread as an "Official Get 'er Running" thread, even though I posted about Hylomar regarding this bike earlier. As I go through things and get everything sorted out I will post it here, just in case there are some other LS650 thumper owners out there who may benefit from the torture I am sure I am about to go through. First, let me say that when working on this bike it is useful to be an octopus with opposable thumbs, as all the clearances are tight and to wiggle stuff in and out often requires one to hold a dozen parts just so.

So far--I pulled the carb and did a thorough cleaning, pulling all jets, clearing their tiny holes with fishing line, putting in a new float valve o-ring and reinstalling the carb. While I was ordering a couple new o-rings for the carb (one spare; always buy one spare) I also ordered tanks mounts which were missing from this bike. Don't expect Suzuki (at least our local dealer didn't) to have anything in stock; you'll wait a week to get your stuff. I am pretty confident that this carb will now function properly as I have had much experience with other CV carbs (see the thread titled "So Close, but Yet So Far" about my travails getting my 42 year old CB350 to run).

I also put in a new air filter (there was none on the bike when I picked it up) changed the oil and installed a new oil filter. I also went out a bought a 18mm spark plug socket (don't bother trying a deep 18mm socket; it won't work) and installed a new plug, properly gapped. Before putting in the plug I put a teaspoon or so of oil in to soak down past the rings as this bike has sat since 2008 and there was zero oil in the top end.

I got two tanks with the bike and chose the less dented and less rusted one which I cleaned with muriatic acid, flushed out with water and immediately followed by denatured alcohol. It is now all clean with bare gray metal inside. I may reline it, but later once the thing has proven to me it can run.

I also discovered the forks were on backward with the rotor on the wrong side, so I put them right.

First big challenge was the petcock. By the way, Suzuki does not sell any parts for this; they require you to buy an entire petcock for about $70. It did not look bad inside but I found a rebuild kit made for other bikes but which fits this one perfectly (an o-ring is included which goes unused for this bike). The part came from Z1 Enterprises and its part number KL18-4344 "Petcock Repair Kit Suzuki". That renewed the inside of the petcock, now to mount it. As I related in the Hylomar thread; I remounted the petcock on the cleaned tank and had bad fuel leaks. I tried anaerobic sealant, which failed. I next tried Hylomar, a highly touted racing sealant, but the leak was still there. I flattened the mating surface with a file, followed by fine sandpaper, where the petcock flange's lozenge-shaped "o-ring" seated; but it still leaked. I once again removed the petcock and this time I saw the tiny pin-holes in the bottom to side flange, right next to the petcock base, which is what fooled me into thinking the petcock was the culprit. A bit of JB Weld cured that leak and a fine film of Hylomar on the petcock base, the mating surface of the tank, and on the bolt threads finally did the job of stopping the leak(s).

Next up was mounting the tank. The tank, just like the carb, has almost no wiggle room for mounting and removal and reinstallation is difficult and you must wiggle and hold your tongue just so to get things to fit on this bike. The space is so much more close around stuff on this bike compared to my CB350, where removing a carb takes me about two minutes (1/2 hour for my first attempt on the LS650). Anyway, I plugged in the instrument lights and put on the speedo cable and remounted the tank. Then hooked up the vacuum and fuel line from the petcock. Next, a new battery went in. Switch on, and the headlight works anyway, and the front turn signals come on but don't blink. I even have a working neutral light.

I hit the start button and whirrrr! the starter turned over. I left the bike for the rest of the day planning to try a real engine start after work, with fuel in the tank. Unfortunately, the whirr was only the starter; the engine was not turning over, as my brother and I discovered when we went to start it.

I pulled the starter and could turn the gear inside the engine through the hole with my finger. I drained the oil and started to pull the left side engine cover. Easy enough, as it has actuall hex head bolts holding it on, instead of those d*mn phillips heads like my CB. Uh oh; one is hidden on the bottom side behind the shifter/footpeg bracket, which is in turn held on with long big bolts that also serve as engine mounts that run across the whole width of the bike, terminating on the right side footpeg bracket. Finally, I removed the shift linkage and was able to get an 8mm wrench in from the front to this bolt and a tiny turn by tiny turn I got the final bolt out. The cover was loose, but the spring loaded kickstand switch is sticking out and keeping me from pulling it off. I can't hold in the switch, take weight off the bracket and pull the cover off by myself. So, this is where I am at; waiting for another helper to hold the bike and switch in, so I can pull the cover off and hopefully see what is going on inside, keeping the starter from engaging the motor. It is not clear from the manual or pictures how exactly this thing clicks in and out. Hopefully, seeing the gearing myself will shed light on this problem. There must be a mechanism that engages and releases the starter, as it cannot be spinning all the time with the motor, but it is a mystery to me--so far.

That's where I am at right now. Once the motor is working, there are myriad little things electrical to work on and multiple missing parts. Obvious future needs are left rear turn signal; front right turn signal as this one, although working, is flapping loosely in its mount; The neatral swith wire is broken and dangling under the bike--new switch I am sure required; mounts for the driver seat are missing; and a front left driver's footpeg is missing. Good thing I got the bike for free.

Cheers,

Mike

The Savage upon arrival in my garage after pickup in Dothan, AL.
 
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#56 ·
Discouragement today. Got insurance on the bike and went to take it out to Fuzzy's, our local biker dive, about three miles away from home. The Savage started right up but still was backfiring. I thought it would settle down once it was warmed up like before so I took it for a short ride around the neighborhood. Unfortunately, this time the backfiring never stopped, and the bike would not rev up smoothly. It would surge up then cough and slow. I had to stay in the middle of the fristion zone the whole time. Never got past second gear. It quit completely on me a mile or so from the house, but eventually I got it to start again and I rode it pop, pop, popping all the way there. I parked it in the garage and took my CB up to Fuzzy's instead.

The backfiring is in the exhaust, not back through the carb. I think fuel is being drawn into the combustion chamber and not getting fired and then going out the exhaust only to be ignited in the pipe. The backfiring, by the way, does not just happen on deceleration but pretty much all the time. I checked the coil again while it was still warm and it still checked out perfectly. I guess the cam chain could have jumped and messed up the timing, but that right now is a wild guess. These bikes do have a poor chain tensioner system so a check might be in order. Funny, though, that the bike ran good the other day after the initial same symptoms.

One bright note was that the sealant on the outside of the plug did seem to reduce the oil leak onto the exhaust.

Back to the ole drawing board, I guess.

Mike, not so cheerful tonight
 
#58 ·
I'm still working on mine too. Running well, but I took it out on the highway and the oil leak - while not gushing - was heavy enough to be worrisome. Much worse than I remembered it being before I put it in storage. I've almost got the head cover off. When I do, I'm going to try replacing that plug that the savage forum says is a problem for everyone. Not sure if that's the problem though, because the oil is actually coming out the back side on the right side, near where the carb connects. If I can't see an obvious problem, I'll try replacing that plug with the newer version and sealing it up well.
 
#60 · (Edited)
Even worse news today, not about the bike.

My friend, Vince, owner of BABs Motorcycle Shop, was hit yesterday while riding. This is the guy who has always been willing to help me with all my old bikes' problems and has gone out of his way for me. I went to pick up a clutch cable I had ordered through him for the Savage and found his place closed. I came home and did some chores around here then called his number, hoping by then that he had gotten to the shop. I got his wife, which surprised me. She told me Vince was "T-boned" by a car and it looks like they are going to have to take his leg(s).

I think he goes by Vince, but his entire name is different, maybe he uses his middle name, I dunno, but not many wrecks here in Lake Wales, let alone bike accidents, and the paper is reporting that an elderly man pulled out of a bank and ran right into a biker (Henry Moore) as he rode along. Must be Vince.

Waiting to hear more details. My brother-in-law is a Lake Wales cop and worked the accident I am told.

Mike
 
#64 · (Edited)
Here's my bike:


This is where the oil is leaking from:



It looks pretty clean in that photo because I cleaned it off with engine cleaner so I could better see how fast the oil was leaking. If I took it out for a ride, I could see oil coming out and starting to run into the cooling fins within 2 or 3 miles.

Here's the bike without the headcover:



This is what an ignoramus I am concerning motorcycles: When I took the head cover off, I could see quite a bit of oil in all the three places I've indicated with arrows, but I assume that that is normal. Oil should be splashing around in there, shouldn't it? For instance, that troublesome plug, which creates a little dish, was about half full with oil, but I don't know if that's a problem or not.

Anyway, I was hoping that I'd be able to see an obvious problem after taking the head cover off, but I don't think I do. I was assuming that that plug was the problem, but it seems fairly snug to me. It's not askew or anything. I can't really move it around with my hand, although I realize that it could still be leaking despite that. Is there any way I can check for leaks at this point? I mean, I can't run the engine now.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I think at this point, although the plug seems secure to me, I'll replace it anyway, hoping that that was causing the problem. Is there any other likely suspect that I should replace now, seeing as how the head cover is off?

Also, can anyone (LWrider?), confirm that it's normal to see oil where those valve springs are? Sorry to be such a rookie.

PS: By the way, hope your friend comes out of it OK. Losing the legs ... wow, that would be awful.
 
#65 ·
Yes, Allerretour, there should be oil there. That head looks in pretty good shape. Thanks for the pciture. Don't forget which bolt goes where and all the rubber bits and a new shaft end seal before you button it back up. There is a pretty good step by step at Savage Forum on hwo to do that.

Not sure about your leak. Looks to be above the head seam and below the head cover seam, but it could be running down from above. I'll have to look ta my bike tomorrow and see what is there exactly.

About my friend--better news maybe. I talked to my b-i-l who worked the accident, he used to be an EMT before he became a cop. He said he thought Vince would lose his foot, but was surprised to hear that he might lose his legs. He said they did not look that messed up to him. I am hoping his wife was just overcome with everything that was happening and maybe the outcome will be better than her prediction.
 
#68 ·
Don't forget which bolt goes where and all the rubber bits and a new shaft end seal before you button it back up.
Hello again LWRider. Should have read your message closer, specifically the part about replacing the shaft end seal. This is part number 43 in your engine diagram above, correct? I was cleaning off the engine head and I noticed that some of the rubber had come off the shaft end seal and was stuck on the head cover. I really had to scrape to get it off, and now the shaft end seal part is a little rough. I was wondering to myself if the silicone seal would seal it up sufficiently, but I gather from your post that you think this should just be replaced. Should have done that when I ordered the new plug; I'll now have to pay shipping twice.
 
#66 ·
Better news about my firend. He has lost his left foot and will most likely lose that leg to the knee, but the other leg and foot are OK.

I have put the Savage on the back burner for now and paid some long overdue atention to my CB350, doing the valves, timing, and carbs. Runs beautifully now.

Netx up for the thumper is a check/adjustment of the vales and a new exhaust gasket. Then I'll give it another try and see ho it goes.

Cheers,

Mike
 
#69 ·
Yes, number 43. Do you not have a Suzuki dealer close to you? Mine does not charge me any shipping.

I, in fact, am just going to order all new rubber/seals, etc. when I do mine (along with the order will be a new exhaust gasket also).

I would doubt that piece is very expensive. Better safe than sorry, at least that's how I'd approach it. You don't want to have to pull it all apart for that little seal. By the way, make sure you use sealer on that plug, the shop manual doesn't say anything about it, which is why they often leak. The consensus is to use sealer and not be sorry later. Have you looked at the procedure over at Suzuki Forums?

Cheers,

Mike
 
#70 ·
My cousin gave me an idea, which I will check before checking the valves. He said to check the decompression lever. If it is not working proberly it could certainly cause my symptoms, which makes sense. It ought to be easy enough to check that. I will unplug the wires on the decomp solenoid and start the bike without it and report back here with the results. I did have a bad timer on the decomp system and bought an ebay replacement, but I suppose that could be bad or the lever throw is not adjusted properly. First thing is to try without it at all and if it runs well, then I will try and adjust it. If possible I do want to keep the decomp system as it will be much easier on my battery and starting. It probably won't be until next week as I leave for South Bend/Niles tomorrow for a few days.

Cheers and ya'll have a great weekend.

Mike, tired of the rain in Florida
 
#72 ·
Hey, Eric! That's what I am trying to figure out. I disconnected the cable last night and fired the bike up. It did run much better. Unfortunately I let it die before it was all the way warmed up and I could not get it started again. Just turning the bike over a couple times without the compression released wore the battery down. It is recharged now.

I would like to see how those dirt bikes are set up. Do you have any pictures?

The savage has a simple lever mounted on top the the head on the left side, pretty much like a spring-returned throttle lever. It turns a cam and holds the exhaust valves open. It sounds like it is critical that the throw is just right (3-5mm). I am thinking maybe a trigger-activated cable of some sort mounted somewhere. It has to be easy to do while holding the clutch in. The decomp only lasts a second or so.

Here's what the manual says about the decomp system:

"The automatic decompression control system automatically operates a
solenoid that actuates the decompression lever. The decompression lever
opens the exhaust valves a small amount in order to relieve compression
during the starting cycle. This makes it easier for the starter to turn the
engine over initially.

With the ignition switch ON, the clutch lever pulled in and starter button
pressed in, the circuit from the battery is completed and 12 volts are
applied to the number 2 terminal of the control unit. When the 12 volts
reach the Timer I, it is activated allowing the 12 volts to reach the No. 3
terminal of the control unit. At this time, the control unit activates the
decompression solenoid which operates the decompression lever. About 0.2
seconds after the starter button is pressed, the Timer II is activated and
12 volts reach the No. 4 terminal on the control unit. At this time, the
starter solenoid is energized and the starter motor starts to turn. The
operation of the Timer I is 0.7 seconds and the Timer II shuts off the
solenoid 0.5 seconds afer starter motor starts turning. This allows the
decompression lever to return to its normal position."

Cheers,

Mike
 
#75 ·
Haven't posted for a bit, but here's where I am now.

Eric (97Fire) suggested a manual realease for the decompression lever, which I may do. Seems lots of dirt bikes have them and they look adaptable. But first, I went out to check the lever and cable to see if it returns properly.

It is not a positive snap-back, so that might be the crux of the problem--possibly the decomp keeps decomping sometimes. So, I pulled the tank to take a closer look and to pull the cable to see if it runs free. Now that I am more familiar with this bike, I saw that parts of the decomp are not even there. First, the decomp solenoid is being held on by only one of the two bolts, so I will fix that. Also, there is a kind of "bridle" that holds the cable at the solenoid end and it is completely missing from my bike. Also, the cable itself, although seemingly free, is frayed pretty badly and has a kind of kink in its casing.

So, I am ordering another decomp solenoid from ebay today (many available)along with cable and "bridle." I can pick up a new mounting bolt locally. Once I get that stuff I will let you know how it goes, but from my experience with starting the bike without the cable connected, I think it will solve the problem (fingers crossed).

Another good thing resulting from removing the tank was getting a good look at the top engine mount. There are supposed to be two bolts at the frame and one at the engine, but mine only had one frame bolt, leaving the motor "unmounted" at the top and the brackets dangling. I can pick up new bolts for that locally, too. I knew there was an issue up here, but I thought the mounting bolts were broken off in the holes; luckily that is not the case and I won't have to "eazyout" anything, just plug in new bolts.

By the way, my friend ended up having only one leg taken and only to the knee. Bad, but much better than if he had lost both. He had skull and facial fractures, but nothing life-threatening on that count, which also is lucky because he was not wearing a helmet.

Cheers,

Mike
 
#76 ·
Tell your friend, if it was his left leg that was amputated, I will have my wife take pics and get a verbal synopsis of a bike one of her clients rides.

He has a prosthetic leg from the knee down on the left side and had his shifter modified. He has two bikes and rides constantly.

He said fake toes weren't going to keep him off of two wheels :D
 
#78 ·
Still rough, but you're right that one leg is better than two. Hope he wasn't a runner. That would be the biggest problem for me, but you can always do something. I think if it's below the knee you could bike (bicycle), for example, pretty well.

Another dumb question for you, lwrider (or any other good soul). I took the engine head off, replaced that troublesome plug, and re-did the silicon sealer on the head, in order to stop my oil leak. First results are promising in that it doesn't appear to be leaking like before, although I've only been able to ride it a few miles. Unfortunately, it has a harder time starting than before I did the repair, occasionally dies at idle, and runs rougher on the road, especially at low rpms. Feels like it's not getting enough gas; jerky like when the primary tank is running out and you have to switch to reserve. I assume that it's something directly related to fuel flow, like my petcock issue from before, or a pinched line somewhere, BUT ... I had one question for you about the "automatic decompression cable". I don't even know what this does, but it's the only place where I had some uncertainty when replacing the head cover. It's the thing that has two bolts holding it onto a bracket, on the front left side of the engine. You have to take it off when removing the head cover, and you have to move the adjusting screws to do it, and I really had no idea where they were originally when I reassembled it, so I put it in the middle somewhere. Do you know what the "automatic decompression cable" does and could it have something to do with my hard starts and stalling? If so, any idea how to adjust it? Thanks.
 
#79 ·
The decompression lever operates a cam that holds the exhaust valves open a bit to relieve compression pressure when starting. If you look under the front valve cover you can see the working end of it on the right.

The lever is operated by a solenoid which pulls a cable which pulls the lever. The solenoid is operated by a small electronic module, which is basically a timer which regulates the starting cycle, opening the exhaust valves for a short moment, forwarding the signal to the starter, then closing the exhaust valves.

The solenoid is round and mounts on the right side near the coil under the tank. The controller has a rubber mount and is supposed to sit between in the "crotch" where the top frame separates under the tank and just in front of the carb.

Clymers has the procedure for testing the "timer" and also how to adjust the lever by adjusting the throw on the solenoid (3-5 mm if I recall correctly). You can measure this by lifting the rubber cap on the right side of the solenoid and measuring how far the rod moves when the lever is activated when the engine is at top dead center. You adjust the cable at the lever to get this set right. Makesure your cable works smoothly and the lever has sufficient spring tension to return it.
My solenoid is missing the "bails" or "bridle" or bracket or whatever you want to call it that holds the solenoid end of the cable, making mine not work correctly when activated.

Because this holds the exhaust open, if it fails or opens too far, or at the wrong time, stuff can go wrong. If it fails to work at all the motor will be harder to turn over resulting in a dead battery if you have to crank it more than once or twice. If the lever does not return to closed for some reason, then the motor will run erratically and backfire as the fuel gets passed right through the cylinder and into the pipe (what I think is happening in my case).

That's a quick, off-my-head explanation, anyway.

Cheers,

Mike
 
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