Why I’m Glad I Bought a Harley-Davidson

February 9, 2010 by jmark 

I’ve been meaning to write this up, but been busy. Have a few minutes now and thought I’d put some of it down, while I’m thinking of it.

I should probably start with the bike. Well, maybe a little background. I have been riding for over 45 years. I raced semi-professionally as a teenager (meaning I had sponsors who paid for stuff and we rode a local circuit). Raced motocross, trials, cross-country and hill-climb. Loved it. Me and my dad did it for years. My first motorcycle was a Honda 305, sometime in the mid-60’s. I was a kid, rode in the thousands of acres behind our house, and if I dropped it I couldn’t pick it up. Had to wait for my dad to get home. I learned not to drop it. Had a Hodaka racer, then we had Maicos and many Hondas etc. Rode mostly Beemer street bikes as an adult. Stopped riding for a while. Returned a couple years ago.

Also as a kid my family owned race cars and a high-performance auto center. I basically designed racing engines as a teenager. Spent a lot of time working with customers etc. Had a great time. We had a large garage at home and built cars and bikes constantly.

When I returned to motorcycles, I was baffled to learn that almost all the Japanese makes were fitted out with "plastic." Not only were the fenders and side covers plastic, the damm chrome (so-called) was plastic. OK. Fine. I’ll live with it. Over time I came to realize that this was sort of symptomatic of the throw-away nature of most of these modern machines. At the NY Motorcycle Show last winter, I saw a display of "Vintage Japanese Bikes." I loved them, but had to wonder how many of today’s would be around in 30 or 40 years for a similar display? My own Honda Aero was already showing signs of unhappiness with only a few thousand miles on it.

Not only that, but the bike (Honda) was not very susceptible of home-wrenching. Hard to explain. It’s just not laid out or built for that. I doubt that most of the people who buy them even own and real mechanic’s tools.

Now, the dealers. Well, basically, the metric dealers mostly sukk. I’m sorry, but that’s my impression, and I’ve been in many. I bought my Aero at probably the best Honda dealer in the region, and while they were nice enough to me pre-purchase, pretty much immediately afterward it was "who are you, again?" I would walk in there, with money in my pocket, and with not a customer in the store, the five employees would twiddle their thumbs and ignore me. Even when I stood at the parts counter obviously wanting help.

When I did get "help", it was, "Yeah, what do you want?" "Well, I was thinking of putting on [x]. Do you have any thoughts or recommendations?" "Show me what you want and I’ll tell you how much it costs." Etc. Gruff, totally uninterested, totally unhelpful. Same with service, gear, etc. Cold, indifferent, borderline obnoxious.

The people. Hell, I almost got in a fist fight twice in the **** Honda dealership, with azzhole customers who wanted to push and shove their way around and show how big and tough they are. The people I would run into in these places all seemed to have something to prove. I think maybe twice I had a kind word from a customer or "fellow rider". I eventually found another dealer I liked better, but only because the owner himself was actually a nice guy, once you drew him out. But they had lousy prices on the bikes, and not much inventory, and terrible hours.

Skipping over a lot… The first time I took my HD to the local dealer, I was amazed. I parked in the parking lot and went in. The service manager was not just polite, he was interested, human, looked you in the eye and seemed like a decent guy. And he was *helpful*, even offering ideas and suggestions right off the bat. Wow.

Then I was amazed by the … "Well, just ride your bike up this ramp and into the shop." Huh? A big, beautiful ramp, a double automatic glass door, and your ride your bike right up to the service counter. Literally. Holy cow! Nice air conditioned space, clean, large and well organized. And they’re helpful! The service people at both the HD dealers I have dealt with have been tremendous. When I was in the other day, not only did the service manager spend a lot of time with me, the mechanic who worked on my bike saw me near the bike and came over and volunteered some thoughts. Nice people. Just straight up, no bull****, nice people. Same with the parts people — just bend over backwards to help you figure out what you need to do what you want to do.

I also quickly learned that the HD is easy to work on. It’s just laid out nicely, and you can see how to remove and replace stuff. It’s basic wrenching. Plus, there is a TON of aftermarket stuff for these bikes. It could take YEARS just to learn the market. Not only that, but HD itself makes a ton of "aftermarket" stuff, and so far all of it I have seen is top quality. Seriously. You can customize these bikes to your heart’s content (and your wallet’s discontent ). That’s what it’s all about.

When I was in the racing world way back, that was the way it was. People in the business wanted to help you. They liked other enthusiasts, just because. They shared their knowledge and their time freely, even loved doing it. I know, I was one of them. As was the rest of my family. Well, you don’t see that much any more. Except I see it plain as day and in full living force at the HD shops. Go figure, eh? How’d they do that?

Find ten Hayabusas and I bet 9 of them will be stock. And you may ask, why change a ‘busa? But why change a Super Glide, either? The answer is, it’s fun, and it personalizes your machine. And you can change it around next year if you feel differently.

The people. I had this kind of fear about the whole "Harley crowd" thing. I’ve had my "encounters" with some scary people in the past (many years ago) (and also some very pleasant encounters). But I was just kind of nervous, like "I don’t really fit in." Well, my experience has been so damm different from that, it’s just remarkable. It seems like every time I come face to face with another HD rider, there is just sort of this automatic, assumed… I dunno, just basic decency. People smile, chat, ask about your bike, toss around ideas. No condescension, no patronizing, no rudeness… nothing to prove, never mind pushing around and trying to pick a fight with people in a motorcycle shop.

Mind you, I’m aware that I may be exxagerating a bit, or possibly over-glorifying things or unduly ****ing other things. I know there will be countless examples and stories of people who had great experiences in a "metric" shop, or terrible ones in an HD shop. I know that, so please there is no need to hammer me with that. I’m just telling you about my experience.

I should even mention the "moto-clothes." I was skeptical, and didn’t want to seem like a dweeb, so I didn’t pay much attention to all the HD "gear" in the clothing section. But then I decided to really check it out. And damm, there’s some really nice stuff there. The jackets are very high quality — and i know the difference, I bought one of my first sets of street leathers from Vanson when they were a fledgling company on the back streets of Boston (never forget the babe who measured me for my chaps… ). I have lots of leathers, of all qualities. The HD stuff is very nice. And I got a cool t-shirt for my 5 year old son. He will not take the damm thing off (smells like hell, I’m gonna have to get a bunch more).

The bike… runs like a bat out of hell. It’s actually scary at times. At 70 mph, in 4th gear (out of six), twist the throttle and hang on for dear life. You can easily cruise at 80 or 90 with the engine running well below 2500 rpm’s. It’s powerful as helll, torquey beyond belief, and just plain awesome.

Not to mention, everywhere I ride it chicks show me their … oh, never mind. (Just kidding).

I’m sitting here right now with a set of t-bars and some related parts on my desk. I ordered these from Accutronix. I spoke to them on the phone (three times). Like everyone else I’ve dealt with in the aftermarket HD world, they were just tremendous. Helpful, friendly decent as hell.

So guys, just think about it a little. I don’t have a "point." Just wanted to share my experience. But still, it’s a good American company. Lots of flaws, but still, a good, solid publicly traded American company, making a damm nice product.

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Just came back from work and I'm too tired to read everything, I bet though you have your good reasons for buying a harley, hope you're very happy with it.

I'll tackle this post tomorrow if I have time so I can give you a better answer... till then, cheerio
Old 09-01-2009, 09:21 PM Prodigy is offline  
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Great outlook on the world of riding. I'll bet there is one other thing about the brand. When you take in an old 70's metric,they might give you advice and sell parts,but really no one will work on the thing at a dealer. Probably because if the bill is too high,it exceeds the value of the bike.
Would that be the situation at a Harley dealer?
Old 09-01-2009, 09:30 PM slumlord is offline  
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Interesting read. I do have two issues though. For one, I hate, and I mean HATE, when people talk about metric owners not knowing how to wrench. Your argument is that metrics are built in such a way that they would be more difficult to wrench on at home than harleys. Wouldn't it stand to reason that the people who DO wrench on metrics at home are therefore very skilled at it? If, by your own words, it's more difficult to do, then the people who do it must be great mechanics.

Edit: yeah I know you said you were just sharing "your" experiences with the dealerships, but the way you said it demonized all metric dealers, hence the following:
Also, dealerships are a crapshoot. The harley dealership in town here can be horrible and the honda one is usually fairly decent.

You almost got in a fight with people at a store? Aren't you the one who chastised me for being "young and stupid" for riding my bike fast on the highway? Shouldn't an older, wiser person refrain from fighting people in public?

Last edited by black27696; 09-02-2009 at 12:11 AM.
Old 09-02-2009, 12:05 AM black27696 is offline  
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Thanks for sharing your experiences, and thanks for taking the time it must have took to actually sit down and to write about them. It was a nice read and very well written.

Now, I am sure there will be the haters and the Internet-brave-hearts that will want to pick apart what you wrote and dispute several, or many, things. And there will be those that just HAVE to respond and detail every freaking bad experience they ever had with Harley's, or those that ride them, or those that sell them, or those that work on them.... But they should just realize that while they're sitting at their computers and hating, you'll be out riding and enjoying and living and experiencing.

Like I said when you first posted that you bought your scoot, "Welcome to the darkside." <chuckle> I don't know if there are any cookies left, but we have rallies and rides and parts and performance and friendship and our own bars and aftermarket stuff up the wazoo and outlaw clubs and riders clubs and associations and simple groups that just like to ride and about anything else you could hope to find. It's all good.

Hey, if you're ever in the Raleigh-Durham area of NC, or Daytona Beach FL when I'm in either place, (I spend a lot of time in both) you have a place to stay. Might not be anything other then a hallway to drop a sleeping bag in, but it's a roof, so let me know. And if you ever break down within range of my shop in RD NC and I can get to you and haul you in, we'll make sure you get back on the road again. Send me an e-mail and I'll give you my cell number. Like I said, welcome to the "darkside."

-Eye (Arrogant, nose in the air, elitist, Harley rider.)
Old 09-02-2009, 12:57 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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Why Im glad I DIDNT buy a Harley Davidson

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmark View Post

When I returned to motorcycles, I was baffled to learn that almost all the Japanese makes were fitted out with "plastic." Not only were the fenders and side covers plastic, the damm chrome (so-called) was plastic.
Im glad its plastic. Plastic = lightweight and lightweight= performance vs piles of useless metal that serves no purpose other than to broadcast yet another HD logo.

Quote:
Not only that, but the bike (Honda) was not very susceptible of home-wrenching. Hard to explain. It's just not laid out or built for that. I doubt that most of the people who buy them even own and real mechanic's tools.
Another sucker punch jab at metric bikes. I own two metric bikes, neither of which has ever seen a single minute inside a repair shop. Unlike most HD's which spend lots of time in the shop for something HD calls "upgrades" which is really just a BS term they use to describe bolting on another piece of mass-produced useless metal. I do all my own maintenance, and I have "real" tools to do it with.


Quote:
Now, the dealers. Well, basically, the metric dealers mostly sukk. I'm sorry, but that's my impression, and I've been in many. I bought my Aero at probably the best Honda dealer in the region, and while they were nice enough to me pre-purchase, pretty much immediately afterward it was "who are you, again?" I would walk in there, with money in my pocket, and with not a customer in the store, the five employees would twiddle their thumbs and ignore me. Even when I stood at the parts counter obviously wanting help. When I did get "help", it was, "Yeah, what do you want?" "Well, I was thinking of putting on [x]. Do you have any thoughts or recommendations?" "Show me what you want and I'll tell you how much it costs." Etc. Gruff, totally uninterested, totally unhelpful. Same with service, gear, etc. Cold, indifferent, borderline obnoxious.
So because you went into a lousy dealership, you automatically assume that its because of the metric bikes. Its not the bikes, its the crappy dealership


Quote:
Skipping over a lot... The first time I took my HD to the local dealer, I was amazed. I parked in the parking lot and went in. The service manager was not just polite, he was interested, human, looked you in the eye and seemed like a decent guy. And he was *helpful*, even offering ideas and suggestions right off the bat. Wow.

Then I was amazed by the ... "Well, just ride your bike up this ramp and into the shop." Huh? A big, beautiful ramp, a double automatic glass door, and your ride your bike right up to the service counter. Literally. Holy cow! Nice air conditioned space, clean, large and well organized. And they're helpful! The service people at both the HD dealers I have dealt with have been tremendous. When I was in the other day, not only did the service manager spend a lot of time with me, the mechanic who worked on my bike saw me near the bike and came over and volunteered some thoughts. Nice people. Just straight up, no bull****, nice people. Same with the parts people -- just bend over backwards to help you figure out what you need to do what you want to do.
Of course they did....its a HD stealership. If you bend over they will kiss your ass to sell you some expensive useless piece of metal. Around every corner is some HD branded gizmo for a 300% markup complete with commissioned salesman ready to convince you that you wont be cool unless you buy it.

Quote:
I also quickly learned that the HD is easy to work on. It's just laid out nicely, and you can see how to remove and replace stuff. It's basic wrenching. Plus, there is a TON of aftermarket stuff for these bikes. It could take YEARS just to learn the market. Not only that, but HD itself makes a ton of "aftermarket" stuff, and so far all of it I have seen is top quality. Seriously. You can customize these bikes to your heart's content (and your wallet's discontent ). That's what it's all about.
Yup HD makes tons of aftermarket useless metal pieces. HD emblem Fancy dipsticks, HD emblem points covers, HD emblem saddlebags, HD emblem air cleaners, HD emblem footrests.....plenty of useless parts that cost hundreds and dont improve performance one little bit. But thats ok, 'cause yer kool.


Quote:
When I was in the racing world way back, that was the way it was. People in the business wanted to help you. They liked other enthusiasts, just because. They shared their knowledge and their time freely, even loved doing it. I know, I was one of them. As was the rest of my family. Well, you don't see that much any more. Except I see it plain as day and in full living force at the HD shops. Go figure, eh? How'd they do that?
Its all just foreplay before they rape your wallet.

Quote:
Find ten Hayabusas and I bet 9 of them will be stock.
Id say nearly 9 out of 10 around here have extensive mechanical performance upgrades, and most of the upgrades were USER installed. NOS, Drag extensions, performance brakes, programmable CDI units, etc. Go to Atlanta...Ill bet you cant find a stock hayabusa.

Quote:
The people. I had this kind of fear about the whole "Harley crowd" thing. I've had my "encounters" with some scary people in the past (many years ago) (and also some very pleasant encounters). But I was just kind of nervous, like "I don't really fit in." Well, my experience has been so damm different from that, it's just remarkable. It seems like every time I come face to face with another HD rider, there is just sort of this automatic, assumed... I dunno, just basic decency. People smile, chat, ask about your bike, toss around ideas. No condescension, no patronizing, no rudeness... nothing to prove, never mind pushing around and trying to pick a fight with people in a motorcycle shop.
Buy a sportster, and head to a poker run.....that'll change.


Quote:
I should even mention the "moto-clothes." I was skeptical, and didn't want to seem like a dweeb, so I didn't pay much attention to all the HD "gear" in the clothing section. But then I decided to really check it out. And damm, there's some really nice stuff there. The jackets are very high quality -- and i know the difference, I bought one of my first sets of street leathers from Vanson when they were a fledgling company on the back streets of Boston (never forget the babe who measured me for my chaps... ). I have lots of leathers, of all qualities. The HD stuff is very nice. And I got a cool t-shirt for my 5 year old son. He will not take the damm thing off (smells like hell, I'm gonna have to get a bunch more).
And this is perhaps the biggest downfall of HD for me. HD branded clothing is like wearing one of those nametags that says "My name is SHEEP".

Quote:
The bike... runs like a bat out of hell. It's actually scary at times. At 70 mph, in 4th gear (out of six), twist the throttle and hang on for dear life. You can easily cruise at 80 or 90 with the engine running well below 2500 rpm's. It's powerful as helll, torquey beyond belief, and just plain awesome.
If you enjoy that, just wait till you tickle 11 grand on a superbike. That is of course assuming that the HD jacket doesnt inflate with air and yank you off the back.

Quote:
Lots of flaws, but still, a good, solid publicly traded American company, making a damm nice product.
Interesting....the mass advertising by HD has done its job convincing people that you arent american unless you buy HD. Unfortunatly HD is about as american as chopsticks. If you took all the japanese parts off that HD, it would be less than a rolling chassis. The forks are Showa...incidentally made by Honda which you seem to hate so much. Carbs are hecho en japan...the list goes on and on. The only things really made in America are the engine block and the frame. HD riders can wrap themselves up in the "made in America" myth, but those bikes are just as metric as the metrics.

Im all for people riding motorcycles, and if you like HD, then ride HD...if you dont...then dont. But this "Harley is the only real bike" mentality is garbage.
Old 09-02-2009, 01:00 AM bdavison is offline  
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"Shouldn't an older, wiser person refrain from fighting people in public?"

Only if they're pretty sure they can't win the fight at that time, in which case they'll have to take it to another time or another venue. THIS older and wiser <cough> person TRIES to refrain from fights until he knows he has a good chance of winning, in pubic or otherwise. Let the young and inexperienced puff out their chests and posture and pose and try to prove themselves...(and get hurt or go to prison or die.) Personally, I'd rather avoid violence.

(And "fighting" on an Internet forum does not count. It takes no bravery or cunning to sit on your a$$ and type something while you are in no danger)
Old 09-02-2009, 01:12 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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The people. I had this kind of fear about the whole "Harley crowd" thing. I've had my "encounters" with some scary people in the past (many years ago) (and also some very pleasant encounters). But I was just kind of nervous, like "I don't really fit in." Well, my experience has been so damm different from that, it's just remarkable. It seems like every time I come face to face with another HD rider, there is just sort of this automatic, assumed... I dunno, just basic decency. People smile, chat, ask about your bike, toss around ideas. No condescension, no patronizing, no rudeness... nothing to prove, never mind pushing around and trying to pick a fight with people in a motorcycle shop.

Buy a sportster, and head to a poker run.....that'll change.

Umm..yeah. Looks to me from his picture that he DID buy a Sporster. And it seems he HAS been to a few events and had contact with other Harley riders. From what I read of his personal experiences it looks like it has been an overall positive thing.

Prey tell, what is it that you expect to change? Have you been on several poker runs on a Sporster where you had a bad experience? Perhaps you pulled up to an event where all the other big bad Harley riders talked trash about the puny lil Sporster you were riding? He posted his experiences with his new Harley (SPORTSTER!) and you posted a comment based on ignorance and hype and fear. So man-up dude. Why do you think his experiences will change when he goes on a poker run with his XL?

Shoot, He's welcome to stay at my place, good or bad, as long as I'm there, and I ride a big ole snorting Hawg, (and I don't know this guy from Adam) Maybe you should buy a Sporter?

(And grow the grapefruit and scar the heart enough to ride it.)
Old 09-02-2009, 01:43 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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The forks are Showa

Yeap. Made in America.

(Gads, I'm laughing here...)
Old 09-02-2009, 01:45 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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What you explained about your Harley dealership is actually what I experience in about every facet of motorcycling in my area. Ive been to poker runs on my Yamaha - everyone was great.

Ive been on PGR rides with my Kawasaki.....yep, everyone rocked.

Ive been in the Victory/Yamaha dealer on my Honda.....no problems, everyone was helpful.

.....and yes Ive been in the Harley dealership before to. Oddly enough its got two sides. The Harley side and then a metric side. I stopped in the Harley side last year in December, I was coming back from a PGR ride and it was freezing raining like a mofo. I stopped in to warm up, I set down and had something to drink and they chatted with me....never tried to sell me nothing and we could see my Yamaha clearly outside....they didnt care - nice folks. Might have been different if they were busy but in December you could land an airplane on the showroom and not a hit a person - it was dead.

The metric side......they are tools. Every time I buy something there I leave ****ed off and hating the world....they are turds of the highest order.

The way a dealership is run (and likewise a customer treated) has NOTHING to do with the brand of the bikes and EVERYTHING to do with the attitude of the people. Its pure lunacy to think otherwise. HD doesnt mean squat in the equation.....the same people at your great HD dealer would make a great Honda dealer as well.

Ive been to bad HD dealers....they are just as bad as bad metric dealers.

If you cant roll into a poker run on a Sporty or a metric without getting hassled you need to find different folks to ride with.

Ive been on poker runs on my Goldwing and was greated warmly.

Must just be the area.
Old 09-02-2009, 01:49 AM aaronrkelly is offline  
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Carbs are hecho en japan...the list goes on and on

Harley doesn't have any carburetor fueled bikes for sale.

But the last that they did, the carburetors were made by a Japanese owned company and cast in Chine. What's you point?

Where were your jeans made? Where was the last meal you ate grown? And the computer you are using right now to read what I posted?? No doubt it is made 100% in the USA!
Old 09-02-2009, 01:52 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye_m_no_angel View Post
The forks are Showa

Yeap. Made in America.

(Gads, I'm laughing here...)
My Honda Goldwing was made in America too.

Incidentally in the same state Showa builds those forks, Ohio.

I think the point was the American HD isnt all American....we could argue part per part....but we all know that HD outsources parts from overseas.....just like everyone else.

I dont get into a real rant about it until someone accuses me of taking away American jobs by riding a Honda instead of a Harley......when in reality Honda employs far more American then Harley ever has.
Old 09-02-2009, 01:56 AM aaronrkelly is offline  
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Theres certain groups of people no matter what they ride...

I agree with most of what the OP said for the most part but.... and im going from memory here...

Harley are easier to work on with the engine in the bike.... but there are a lot of things on those that make you think what the engineers where thinking... also... if you can tear down a new sport bike in your garage and put it back together.... you deserve more props than if you did it to a harley.... and the thing about people that own a jap bike not owning a real mechanic tool... thats true of most harley owners as well... btw im a certified mechanic..

As for the dealership experiences... its been about the exact opposite around here... although if for some reason I do find one of the old guys working there thats been riding bikes forever... they usually turn out to know one of my parents.... I actually got one of the salesmen to admit things he would get written up for if his supervisor found out LOL... once he realized who I was anyway....

As for this motorclothes BS... its nothing more than a fashion line.. you can easily find just as nice and usually better leathers other places for half the price easy.. I actually looked around a HD dealership once tryin to find something withough a HD logo on it for fun once.... I finally found something... a keychain.... Im not kidding... Also... ask anyone thats taken a shovelhead or even an EVO to a dealership for work and see what happened some time..... they wont touch it.... I'll take my 30 year old jap bike to ANY jab bike dealership.... and there like OMG I havnt seen one of those in forever... and are glad to work on it.

Theres nothing wrong really with the bikes.... but they are not better than something like a GSXr100... its just that the aftermarket for them is freaking huge... and you'll be able to get parts for it until the day you die.... wich is the biggest if not the only reason I prefer harleys for a cruiser.... but not the new ones.... I'de only own some old ass harley...

As for the performance side... this is where I'm greatly one sided.... yes harleys have gotton faster over the years and some are pretty snappy.. but not even a V-rod can compair to something like a Japanese sport bike.... not even close.... harleys are one of the slowest if not THE slowest bike lines out there.... things have really changed in the jap bike world as well.... but more so in the performance aspect.... if you want a fast bike.... you get a jab bike.... ride something like a newer R1 if you dont believe me... im not being partial here.... its just plain fact....

Other than all that.... ya harleys are nice cruisers... and you'll be able to keep that bike to the day you die if you want... enjoy it.


EDIT = oh ya this made in america stuff.... my bike was completely assembled in Japan.... tires and all... and shipped here on a boat.... the first place my bike was ever ridden was Japan..... now thats JDM :P

Last edited by Weebel; 09-02-2009 at 04:09 AM.
Old 09-02-2009, 04:06 AM Weebel is offline  
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JDM FTW! ^_^ :P

Jap is fantastic, but it isnt always all that, I love it more than any other bike, however you have to admit some of the more interesting bikes are european. the MV Agusta is close to sex on wheels, same with some of the other bikes like guzzi's and the like. Although I can respect the harley brand, its not my thing at all, (just to be annoying as well, if I wanted a bike that broke down all the time, was a bitch to ride and leaked oil everywhere, I'd buy a classic british bike )
Old 09-02-2009, 04:20 AM chrisw is offline  
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I would like to buy American. I know a lot of Harley parts were not made in America but when you buy a Honda or Kawasaki that money goes overseas right? Dont you feel an obligation to buy American...especially in this economy? BTW, I am a new rider. I just bought a 1985 Suzuki 550 to learn on but I've been doing research on bikes I might possibly buy in about 6 months or so. At first I was dead set on buying a Harley or Victory but it's hard to ignore the V-stars and Kawasakis when the have better price tags, better tech and more features. I want to buy American but I also want the best my money can buy.
Old 09-02-2009, 07:15 AM 72Pat is offline  
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yeah i quit reading after the jab at honda. i'll be the first to complain about the Fury's plastichrome, but honda in general makes good quality machinery.

reading in cycle world today, saw the article on the CVO harley's they're offering....$27,999 for the soft tail convertible all the way up to $35,999 for the ultra classic electra glide....who the hell are they kidding? none of these bikes are worth that much, or even half that much.

turn over a page to the 'ups and downs' section, and take note of the big thumbs DOWN to harley for for stacking another 1000 job cuts to the 1500 they already cut. so you mean to tell me they can sell ridiculously overpriced bikes yet can't keep their employees? what the hell are they paying the ones they have to keep, 20-40 bucks an hour?

i'll be ****ed if i'm going to spend money on a name. harley does make some nice bikes for the price, like the xr1200, but price gouging is just plain wrong.
Old 09-02-2009, 07:16 AM SuperSherpa197 is offline  
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I would like to buy American. I know a lot of Harley parts were not made in America but when you buy a Honda or Kawasaki that money goes overseas right? Dont you feel an obligation to buy American...especially in this economy?
Yeah Im sure all the Americans employed at the 13 Honda factories and facilities really wish you would "buy American" - they dont need jobs.

There are several Honda vehicles that are made here in USA and exported worldwide.....like my Goldwing.

Kawasaki has had plants in the US (Nebraska and Missouri) since the late 70s. My 1980 Kawasaki KZ1000 was made in Lincoln, NB....I did buy American.

You can buy a Kawasaki or a Honda and buy American. Honda employs more Americans then Harley or Victory together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 72Pat View Post
I just bought a 1985 Suzuki 550 to learn on but I've been doing research on bikes I might possibly buy in about 6 months or so. At first I was dead set on buying a Harley or Victory but it's hard to ignore the V-stars and Kawasakis when the have better price tags, better tech and more features. I want to buy American but I also want the best my money can buy.

Your Suzuki on the other hand was NOT made in America.....which makes you both a hypocrite and ill informed.

However if your really stuck on buying American you will likely do well with the Kawasaki line.......Lincoln,NB is nestled safely in American, your good to go.
Old 09-02-2009, 07:39 AM aaronrkelly is offline  
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Going to my local Yamaha dealer and to the Harley dealer is a total different experience. The Yamaha dealer salesmen aren't nearly as helpful as the Harley are. Maybe it's just this particular Yamaha dealer. And there is only one mechanic at the dealership I like working on my Yamaha. The other guy is a waste. I haven't had any problems at the Harley dealership getting my bike serviced. At the Yamaha dealership I had to wait darn near a month for them to replace the sprocket and chain because of Yamaha sending the wrong parts in.
I have a Sportster and rented a Road Kind and Ultra Glide. They are all real nice riding bikes.
Old 09-02-2009, 08:00 AM louturks is offline  
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At the Yamaha dealership I had to wait darn near a month for them to replace the sprocket and chain because of Yamaha sending the wrong parts in.

seriously....maybe you should have replaced them yourself? it doesn't take a rocket scientist, and i can't imagine why you didn't raise hell after the 3rd day and get your bike out of that shop immediately. a set of sprockets and a chain should take a few days at worst case to get shipped in from any aftermarket warehouse (PU, TR etc), and all of about an hour to change sprockets and install the chain.

eh, whatever.
Old 09-02-2009, 08:19 AM SuperSherpa197 is offline  
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I think Im the most objective person I know when It comes
to bikes....I like 'em all equally....From HDs, to Metrics
even scooters ! Ive had very bad experiences with dealers
across the board, and try to avoid them once the bike is purchased,
but Id have to opine that if the universe is going to wreck your
saturday by giving you the wrong part before a big ride, it
will most likely do it through a Metric dealer With their(HD)
system and not changing designs constantly, you are more
often than not, going to get the right part at an HD dealer.

As far as Harley's being 'worth' the crazy bux they charge,
they must be, because the CVO bike sell out every year.
Would I pay that for a bike, hardly, but the market determines
the 'worth' of something and CVO's are pre-order items.
They are spoken for before they are even built. Somebody
thinks they are worth it. To me, I dont understand how BMW
gets the rep they do with their costs and history of problems
and dealer shankings you get when you take one in to be
serviced. But, to each their own....BMW owners will call me a
non-riding putz for owning the riff raff bikes I do
You can get a standard, black HD batwinged bagger for 15,000.
thats less than what Honda charges for a Gold Wing. The
difference is, when you sell the HD four years later, the hit
wont be as great, exponentially speaking....Percentage-wise
you get more on your return if you are into that stuff.

Its all good....the best bike for you is the one you hate being
off of

Last edited by ʋʝɱ-ℒℯℳ; 09-02-2009 at 08:41 AM.
Old 09-02-2009, 08:37 AM ʋʝɱ-ℒℯℳ is offline  
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Nice well written post. JMARk has his opinions based on his experiences and desires. I have mine. I have good friends who ride Harley's, Yamaha, and Victories The key is we all ride, not what we ride. I like the looks of some of the Harleys but went with Kawasaki for the following reasons. 1) I can't see paying several thousand dollars extra for a logo. 2) They still don't seem to have the reputation for reliability that Honda and Kawasaki do. 3) I love to ride and Harley's in my bike's class just are not as comfortable. 4) Went to Harley dealer to get a pair of riding glasess and the cheapest cost $100. At Kawasaki they were $20 and the only difference seemed to be that they didn't have a HD on them. 5) While I could afford a HD I am not sure I could afford to replace my wardrobe with HD logoed stuff.
Old 09-02-2009, 08:42 AM Peter Darby is offline  
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OK, I knew there would be all manner of venom in response to my post (and I even knew who it would be). No big deal. I'll reply generally to a couple of the comments, and let the rest speak for itself.

First, I don't think Honda is making bikes in the USA any more. I think they closed the Ohio plant. It's unfortunate, and I was sorry to see it happen. HD still makes bikes in the USA. At any rate, I believe HD is traded on a US exchange, and it's history is as an American company. That's what I really was referrring to.

Plastic -- yeah, fine. I like plastic, too. Up to a point. And for the same reasons. But I like the fact that my fenders and side covers and engine parts at least are made of steel. YMMV, etc. Just my opinion.

Honda's are good bikes. I've owned many. I love them. I still own one. But I am concerned about where the current machines will be in 30 years. I just don't have that concern about HD. That's all.

Wrenching -- yeah, my comments were a bit over the top there, sorry. What I really was trying to say was that, the way it looks to me, there is a large contingent of HD riders who do a lot of their own wrenching, and less so with the metrics. I may be wrong about that, and it is certainly true that many, many HD buyers these days don't even own a set of tools. Still, I do think the HD's are more "engineered and designed to be worked on" than most metrics. And I do agree, if you can disassemble and reassemble your gixxer, that's impressive.

Fights -- to clarify, I didnt' say a word to those guys in the shop. They basically pushed me out of the way to "break in line", in one case (and that was with me holding my small child in my arms). Bunch of a-holes. Other instances have been similar. Those guys were clearly looking for trouble. I turned away. My point was, it seems like I see a lot of these hot-headed kids in metric shops. Part of the culture, I think.

The shops -- of course it's a crap shoot. I think I said that. But I have been in many, many, many motorcycle shops over the decades, and I think I've seen a thing or two. And as I said, I've been in the industry, on various sides. The way it looks to me (and I'm basing this on visiting at least a dozen HD shops over the last year, and at least twice as many metric shops), the HD shops are friendlier, and more geared toward people who know something about the bikes. I think part of that culture may be because a lot of the riders can be damm demanding, but be that as it may, the shops have been good. So far. And at least the one I go to mostly is far, far better designed and laid out than any shop I've seen anywhere.

EDIT: on the shops, I meant to also say, I think it does make a difference if you ride up on an HD. One can interpret that various ways. One way to see it is, they get a lot of dreamers, tire kickers and wannabees in those shops, and a lot of fools. Having been in retail (high-perf auto), I can tell you, dealing with the buying public can be a nightmare. When one shows up on a bike, it's clear, they are already "there," so to speak. I dunno. Another way to look at it is, "here comes someone who is going to spend money." But that's not the feeling I got. I didn't buy my bike from the dealer here, btw, and they know that.

The clothes -- I didn't say they were the only, or the best, or the best priced. I just said I was surprised at the quality, which seems very good. A jacket I bought recently was on sale and was less than a comparable Vanson, and equal quality imo. No biggy.

Performance -- yeah, I know, I've ridden gixxers. But it's a different kind of performance, a very different feel. Hard to explain. (And btw, my bike is an FXDI, a Super Glide. The design was originally based on the Sporty frame and the big engine.) I wouldn't suggest HD's are the best or the "only real" bikes out there. I just wanted to convey my impressions. I came close to buying a Trumpet (Rocket III), and I will probably start a restoration soon on an older British bike. And I still like Beemers and Guzzi's, and the Apprilia's are cool. And there are some awesome machines coming from the Japanese brands, too. But there is a different feel, at least if a cruiser is what you like. I said to someone the other day, "Riding a metric cruiser is like watching a cover band. There are some good ones out there, and it can be a lot of fun, for a while. But in the end, it's just not the real thing." An overstatement, of course, but fun anyway.

That's what this is all about, folks -- fun. So let's go have some...

Mark

P.S. Eye-- thanks! I expected no less from a gentleman, and the inverse invitation is always here!

Last edited by jmark; 09-02-2009 at 09:01 AM.
Old 09-02-2009, 08:54 AM jmark is offline  
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plastic or no plastic, all i know is i can likely buy three bulletproof hondas for the price of one harley that will try to vibrate my limbs off. seeing as how i'm young, have no car, and don't have piles of cash, my decision's been a fairly easy one. i'm not huge on modding. i just like to ride and my bike is my main source of transportation.

if you like HD, more power to you. dealerships are a mixed bag. other riders are a mixed bag. painting them all with one broad brush strikes me as a bit simplistic. i personally haven't really noticed anything but respect from any other riders around here regardless of what they're on, and i offer them the same respect in return. i ride a shadow vlx and i wave every time i go by the HD dealership. most of the time they wave back, if they notice. i'm not about to tell other people what works for them or what their preference should be.

as for the whole 'buy american' nonsense, it all kind of goes out the window once you internalize that japan and china currently have about $1.5 trillion dollars in the u.s. economy via treasury securities. that and protectionism runs counterproductive to attempts to revive the economy.
Old 09-02-2009, 09:01 AM FictionalCharacter is offline  
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plastic or no plastic, all i know is i can likely buy three bulletproof hondas for the price of one harley that will try to vibrate my limbs off.
I'd like to see proof of that statement, and I'd assume you aren't talking about 3 Rebels. I'd also like someone to be able to point out which HD model made after 2004 will vibrate that bad.

(I think I hear crickets chirping)
Old 09-02-2009, 04:38 PM Dodsfall is offline  
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Buell Blast....shakes like a wet dog.
Old 09-02-2009, 04:57 PM bdavison is offline  
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Yeah Im sure all the Americans employed at the 13 Honda factories and facilities really wish you would "buy American" - they dont need jobs.

There are several Honda vehicles that are made here in USA and exported worldwide.....like my Goldwing.

Kawasaki has had plants in the US (Nebraska and Missouri) since the late 70s. My 1980 Kawasaki KZ1000 was made in Lincoln, NB....I did buy American.

You can buy a Kawasaki or a Honda and buy American. Honda employs more Americans then Harley or Victory together.




Your Suzuki on the other hand was NOT made in America.....which makes you both a hypocrite and ill informed.

However if your really stuck on buying American you will likely do well with the Kawasaki line.......Lincoln,NB is nestled safely in American, your good to go.

You make some good points. I didn't realize there were so many Honda factorys in the USA. Although I wouldn't say I'm a hypocrite for buying a used Suzuki from an individual..... to learn on. None of that money is going to Suzuki right? Besides that, I said I would LIKE to buy an American bike...not that I WOULDN'T buy Honda, Kawasaki, Yahamha, etc.. I like getting the most value for my dollar and I have been quite impressed with those foreign bikes.
Old 09-02-2009, 08:54 PM 72Pat is offline  
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thread full of fail.
Old 09-02-2009, 09:58 PM GI Jack is offline  
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"Riding a metric cruiser is like watching a cover band. There are some good ones out there, and it can be a lot of fun, for a while. But in the end, it's just not the real thing".

It's comments like that that give birth to the stereotype about Harley riders. If I ever buy a Harley, and I might, it will be in spite of people like you, and in spite of the company that makes it. It's like the Apple computer I'm currently using. I hate Apple, they're an arrogant company that refuses to believe they have shortcomings, but I like this individual product. It's the same with Harley. I like a lot of the bikes but I hate their attitude, and the attitude that comes with a lot of the people who ride them.

I wish we could do away with the "Harley Rider" as he exists in stereotype. You can ride a Harley and just be a rider without insulting other people. Dodsfall is an example of what Harley riders should be like. Whenever I meet a guy riding a Harley that is just an average guy who's in to motorcycles I feel bad that there are so many people giving him a bad name. Love the bike, love the ride, leave it at that.
Old 09-02-2009, 10:20 PM black27696 is offline  
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Im going to through a wrench here LOL

After trash talking harleys to a point... I still would not ever buy a new cruiser that wasnt a harley..... although I dont ever see myself buying a new harley either.... unless I had a real reason.

Dont get be wrong... I like Harley's... (I ride a 69 shovel sometimes) I just hate the dealerships and all this "way of life" stuff the company portrays and how some people eat it up..... well that and the ridiculous price.

If I ever buy a harley.. it will most likely be something that was 6 volts when it was new.... if I ever buy a new bike... it will most likely be a sport bike.

You have to admit when you hear the commercial on the radio where the guy always says....."Harley Davidson..... its not just a motorcycle.... its a way of life" you cant help but to be irritated.... Yes it is just a motorcycle you idiot LOL...

Its mostly stuff like that that causes all the love hate crap.
Old 09-02-2009, 11:02 PM Weebel is offline  
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"And btw, my bike is an FXDI, a Super Glide. "

Whoa. My bad. I guess next time I should actually LOOK at the picture first, eh?
Old 09-03-2009, 12:03 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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You make some good points. I didn't realize there were so many Honda factorys in the USA. Although I wouldn't say I'm a hypocrite for buying a used Suzuki from an individual..... to learn on. None of that money is going to Suzuki right? Besides that, I said I would LIKE to buy an American bike...not that I WOULDN'T buy Honda, Kawasaki, Yahamha, etc.. I like getting the most value for my dollar and I have been quite impressed with those foreign bikes.
Now here's a tangent for you: We all know that some Harley parts are purchased overseas. Some bearings, switches, gaskets, and so on. (And in the case of the V Rod a LOT are purchased from Italy and Germany too.) But in the case of the metric bikes such as Kawasaki's that are made in America, how much of the bike is actually MADE here or how much is made elsewhere and ASSEMBLED here? (It doesn't matter a bit to me but I do get curious about these things.) Years and years ago I worked in a factory that made chainsaws that were entirely assembled from parts made in Germany, and marked as "Proudly made in the USA." Now, from what I understand, those same saws have all of their parts manufactured here and are designed here from the ground up, by American engineers that were schooled in the philosophy of how to do it by the Germans parent company.
Old 09-03-2009, 12:18 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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"You have to admit when you hear the commercial on the radio where the guy always says....."Harley Davidson..... its not just a motorcycle.... its a way of life" you cant help but to be irritated.... Yes it is just a motorcycle you idiot LOL... "

Actually, I have never heard that on a radio commercial, nor a TV commercial. But if I did, I would probably laugh. After all, it IS just a motorcycle! It's what you do with it, and how you live, that defines your "way of life."

Some people buy a Harley and all of a sudden think they are "bikers." Same way with those that buy a metric. (But they seem to appologize and defend their choice more for some odd reason.) They're both posers in my opinion. Many more buy either and just get out and ride and enjoy what they ride and enjoy the whole experience, and I like to see that! And then there are the rare few that actually GET IT and they understand what it's all about, this "way of life." God bless 'em.
Old 09-03-2009, 12:41 AM Eye_m_no_angel is offline  
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As far as the commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlZ4ONTb9i0

Two minutes and 30 seconds of douchebaggery.
Old 09-03-2009, 02:03 AM black27696 is offline  
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Originally Posted by black27696 View Post
"Riding a metric cruiser is like watching a cover band. There are some good ones out there, and it can be a lot of fun, for a while. But in the end, it's just not the real thing".

Yeah, cover bands are insufferable. Gotta agree..
Original only, here.


It's comments like that that give birth to the stereotype about Harley riders. If I ever buy a Harley, and I might, it will be in spite of people like you, and in spite of the company that makes it. It's like the Apple computer I'm currently using. I hate Apple, they're an arrogant company that refuses to believe they have shortcomings, but I like this individual product. It's the same with Harley. I like a lot of the bikes but I hate their attitude, and the attitude that comes with a lot of the people who ride them.

But, that can be said about any genre of rider. To me, Sportbikers are every bit as 'bad'(?) as HD riders, meaning you can match their behaviors item for item. After its all said and done, HD hit on a formula that is a money maker for them. More people than not agree with it
so for HD, they are doing something right.


I wish we could do away with the "Harley Rider" as he exists in stereotype. You can ride a Harley and just be a rider without insulting other people. Dodsfall is an example of what Harley riders should be like. Whenever I meet a guy riding a Harley that is just an average guy who's in to motorcycles I feel bad that there are so many people giving him a bad name. Love the bike, love the ride, leave it at that.

The guys I rode with were middle age guys who just wanted to go on looooong rides mostly visiting historical sites in our area, hit a Hooters for dinner and a sleazy, off-the-beaten-track cafe for a cuppa coffee on the ride home. No skarin' old ladies or savin' lives with their loud pipes.
Im a 155lb vegitarian who doesnt even drink beer. I put fuschia zebra fur on all the parts of my Harleys most guys had the skull&flame stuff. Theres a lot of non-HD guys who ride HD's. I would suggest to anyone who is into really being a non-conformist/rebel/anarchist and revolt against tEh MaN holdin' you down, get a scooter. Those guys will put all but the 1%'ers to shame as far as doing cool stuff, getttin loaded, naked and par-taying !

No judgments here, just observations.

My Apples OK, way better than Microsoft, the HD of the computer
world Try one of These next www.system76.com
Old 09-03-2009, 06:46 AM ʋʝɱ-ℒℯℳ is offline  
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I'd like to see proof of that statement, and I'd assume you aren't talking about 3 Rebels. I'd also like someone to be able to point out which HD model made after 2004 will vibrate that bad.

(I think I hear crickets chirping)
craigslist does not lie.

actually i guess it lies quite frequently, but considering that my starting budget was in the $2500 - $3000 range, it should be no revelation that harley priced me out and honda didn't.
Old 09-03-2009, 07:20 AM FictionalCharacter is offline  
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craigslist does not lie.

actually i guess it lies quite frequently, but considering that my starting budget was in the $2500 - $3000 range, it should be no revelation that harley priced me out and honda didn't.
I was talking about new bikes.

For some reason, the depreciation just hasn't caught up to the availability of the HD motorcycles. I think it's a holdover from the days of the long waiting lists for a new HD. You can pretty much just walk in and find what you want new nowadays. Maybe this will trickle down to the used market before too long.
Old 09-03-2009, 08:26 AM Dodsfall is offline  
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There is no question, you can't buy a functional HD for $3k, at least not often. But you can buy plenty of metric bikes (even new). So?

Even if it were categorically the case that HD's were only for the wealthy, that wouldn't bother me at all. Maserati's are pretty much only for the wealthy, and I still think they're awesome, even tho I'll never be able to afford one. I'm happy for those who can (especially Kate Beckinsale ).

But the truth is, you can buy a new Sportster for about $6k, and if Sportsters aren't your thing, a new Super Glide for about $12k, Any "comparable" metric bike new is going to be pretty close to those prices. A little less, sure. Big deal?
Old 09-03-2009, 08:39 AM jmark is offline  
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Originally Posted by jmark View Post
There is no question, you can't buy a functional HD for $3k, at least not often. But you can buy plenty of metric bikes (even new). So?
Im reminded how much I miss certain aspects of my Harleys right now,
trying to figure out a carb glitch on my GS. Harleys are easy / fun
to work on if you are into that stuff. Everything is easy to get to
and not bogged down in tape, cheapo retaining clips, crazy routing
and design for compactness. Also, there is sooooo much stuff to
play with. If you think of, lets say, a filter cover you want for your
Softtail, Somebody makes it.. Your choices are sort of limted
in that stuff with other bikes. People want bikes for different reasons,
if tinkering with stuff is one of yours, a Harley offers the best
platform for ppl who dont have machine shops, hands down
Old 09-03-2009, 09:15 AM ʋʝɱ-ℒℯℳ is offline  
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I would suggest to anyone who is into really being a non-conformist/rebel/anarchist and revolt against tEh MaN holdin' you down, get a scooter. Those guys will put all but the 1%'ers to shame as far as doing cool stuff, getttin loaded, naked and par-taying !
Funny you say that. Back when I was riding a scooter, I got invited to spend a saturday with a scooter club. 15 of them were brits, that moved over here and started this new chapter.

That was the most wild freakiest insane saturday Ive ever spent. Those guys are absolutly crazy. I mean stark raving lunatics.
Old 09-03-2009, 09:57 AM bdavison is offline  
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That was the most wild freakiest insane saturday Ive ever spent. Those guys are absolutly crazy. I mean stark raving lunatics.
Okay well now you have to tell us what you did
Old 09-03-2009, 09:58 AM porange is offline  
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