CB350 Clutch Adjustment Help

[shelzmike]

Okay, I can usually get most things on one or two tries, but this is kicking my tail and I am sure it is over something simple. I am trying to adjust the clutch and know there are several components to it
1.) Lever adjusting bolt and locknut(disc, whatever)
2.) The cable adjusting bolt and locknut on the crankcase cover
3.) The adjusting scew and locknut on the side cover.

Neither my OEM or Clymers is helping me much at this point. I cannot seem to get any play in the lever as I should.

To start with, what exactly is the "clutch lever bracket" in this picture?

In that it says to loosen the locknut at the lever and screw the clutch lever adjusting bolt into the "clutch lever bracket". Which way do I need to turn this adjuster to get it in the damn "Clutch lever Bracket!"? :) Does it mean to screw it into the lever so that there is no length of thread between the adjuster bolt and the lock disc? Meaning, it would be, lever, lock disc, bolt all touching each other. This is a dumb question too - which way do I turn the clutch lever bolt to loosen the cable?

http://i33.tinypic.com/1zvyahj.jpg



And after that, it tells me to turn the adjusting bolt on top of the case both ways (one to loosen it all the way) and then the opposite way once I have tightened the adjusting screw. Okay, it says turn it in direction A at first - um, how the hell am I supposed to know which way A is from this picture? I can get to A clockwise or counterclockwise?


http://i33.tinypic.com/s4w21z.jpg


I am guessing it means counter clockwise at this point. However, when I am turning it back clockwise until I have 3/4 inch play in the lever, i am not getting any play - it is tight as heck. I am guessing this has something to do with my seeming inability to turn the lever adjusting bolt into the "clutch lever bracket"

Thanks for your help on this one guys!

Mike

[shelzmike]

Look what I can do...

Not sure what happened here, but in trying to do this I did it according to what I thought was the correct method as listed in the manuals, but even though the clutch felt tight, the clutch was not engaging at all, so I tightened it more - didn't feel any resistance until **snap** something popped...don't think it was the cable though cuz when I took the cover off, the cable still moves when I pull the lever.. Will update more later with pics - underneath my cover is NASTY dirty.

Mike

[shelzmike]

Okay, here is a little better update. Once I started to mess with the adjustment, The clutch wasn't engaging at all. I have my bike up on the center stand and I had it in neutral. I pulled the clutch in and switched down to first and the wheel (which I spun before hand by the way) stop and it was in gear, with the lever still pulled in. Okay, so I thought maybe it needs to be tighter, so tighter I went until I hear and feel a pop.

I pulled the clutch lever and it was extremely loose. While I was upset, I wasn't too bad since I need to replace my old (probably original) cable. Well, I opened up the case and found that it was nasty:

http://i35.tinypic.com/se3tzl.jpg


And


http://i34.tinypic.com/2642686.jpg


But after 10 minutes, some WD40 and a couple rags - it was clean(er) again:

http://i35.tinypic.com/262s6dz.jpg

My bearings are all still in, but in BAD need of cleaning and regreasing, which is easy enough.

So I have two questions:

1.) How does this mechanism actually engage the clutch - does it essentially push the pushrod in and that engages the clutch? If so, should I be able to easily slide the pushrod out (i can by the way). Is there anyway to test if from the pushrod on my clutch is working? Meaning, can I push on it and test the clutch.

2.) What could have possibly snapped if the cable is still in tact? Is there some sort of safety mechanism?

Any help on this is appreciated. I REALLY do not want to have to delve into the actual clutch - it looks extremely complicated with all those plates and such. In fact, I was just telling my wife that I would much rather completely rebuild the entire engine (minus the clutch) instead of doing the clutch!

Mike

[pintslayer]

I can't for the life of me figure out how to describe how to do this to you.

But, direction "A" is into the case.

Essentially what you want is for the center of the mechanism that the cable actuates to be not quite touching the pushrod. Then you adjust the freeplay at the lever by turning the part labeled "2" in the first picture and locking it in place with part "1".

[shelzmike]

Cool, I think I figured that out when I took it apart and moved all the parts to see what did what. Didn't have that desire before the pop.

So my big questions are: if not the cable, then what was the pop? By the way, I should mention that i am 95% sure the pop was inside this cover and NOT on the other side where the clutch is (I am hoping that is a good thing!).

But even more confusing is the fact that the cable slacked a lot, but it now still activates the mechanism?

The other question is how come I couldn't get the damn thing to engage when I had it (what I thought) was tightened.

Oh, and I left out something else too. I was able to switch gears without the clutch being engaged (apparently, because I pulled the clutch, but when I changed from N to 1st, the wheel stopped moving, meaning it caught the gear. I was thinking that since I still had the clutch pulled in that the wheel would still be rolling? I did all this with the bike not running, I am not guessing that makes any difference at all does it?

Thanks for the reply. I guess I ask the hard questions because I rarely get hardly any answers, cept from the expert, of course :)

I suppose I will clean all the parts of the clutch mechanism really good, pack it back with grease, put it back together and see what happens.

I am just concerned that I somehow messed up my clutch or something. Should I be able to push the pushrod in with my hand or is more pressure usually required on that? I.E. If I get the cable back on and it gets tight again, and let's say the clutch does not work, how do I know if it is the cable/mech or the clutch itself?

Mike

[pintslayer]

If you can push the pushrod in with your hand, you are the toughest man in the universe.

With the motor off, the clutch usually has enough drag to keep the wheel from free-wheeling with the clutch pulled in.

If the clutch operates properly now, take it for a spin.

[shelzmike]

If you can push the pushrod in with your hand, you are the toughest man in the universe.

With the motor off, the clutch usually has enough drag to keep the wheel from free-wheeling with the clutch pulled in.




"I HAVE THE POWEEEER" Okay, good to know that I should not be able to do that, cuz I can't.

If the clutch operates properly now, take it for a spin.

But how do I know if it works correctly? Before Taking it out for a spin? I suppose that I could put the cover back on, tighten it up per the manual and your advice and take it out to see if it works. I suppose I will know right away if it isn't.

Thanks again!

Mike

[pintslayer]

That's the only way to know!!:)

You can't tell if a clutch or transmission is working correctly without riding the bike.

[lhurt]

Can you slide the cable housing out of the adjuster barrels at either the clutch lever or the engine or both? Maybe while you were adjusting the housing backed out of it's seat in one of the barrels. This happens frequently when messing with my bicycle brake cables which appear similar but less strong. If the housing sits on one edge of the adjuster barrels, sometimes with pressure and a wiggle it will pop back into its seat again.

Just a SWAG?!?

[shelzmike]

I can, and I could have. I will just clean it really good and put it all back together and see what happens.

I am guessing that if the clutch was not working then I probably couldn't get it into gears at all, riding it or not.

Maybe it was just telling me that it needed to be cleaned - as you can see from the pictures above, it REALLY needed to be cleaned.

As far as the grease for the bearings - the grease that is already in there (while very dirty looking) looks to be thinner than the red lithium grease that I have. What type of grease should I use for this?

Mike

[lhurt]

thin red grease :D

And now a question: Are motorcycles similar to car where you shift without using the clutch if the engine isn't running or if the engine is running and you match the engine speed to the gear rpm?

Sorry for being no use at all really.

[pintslayer]

I rarely use my clutch to shift once I'm under way. It's actually smoother to shift without the clutch, just takes a bit of practice.

[lhurt]

Yeah, I've heard other folks say the same thing. I understand how it works with a car, but in a car you go into neutral between gears so you can match rpm coming out of one gear and into the next independantly.

Can you explain how it works on a motorbike? The only thing I can imagine is you let off the throttle slightly so the engine matches the gear rpm without pressure to accelerate or decelerate and then shift?

I'm interested but a bit clueless, as you might have guessed.

[mydlyfkryzis]

The clutch actuator has three little balls that ride on a ramp. As you pull the clutch lever, the lever in the case rotates and the balls move up the ramp. This pushes the clutch rod into the case, disengaging the clutch.

If you over adjust the clutch, the 3 little balls travel to far, past the end of the internal ramp. That is the pop you hear. The balls are contained in a flat steel holder, round in shape, with a flat area on the circumference. There is a little tab in the case where the balls are. You may need to take apart theclutch actuator and set all the balls in the right orientation. It makes more sense once you take it apart.

While apart, CLEAN and Grease the actuator mechanism.

[shelzmike]

The clutch actuator has three little balls that ride on a ramp. As you pull the clutch lever, the lever in the case rotates and the balls move up the ramp. This pushes the clutch rod into the case, disengaging the clutch.

If you over adjust the clutch, the 3 little balls travel to far, past the end of the internal ramp. That is the pop you hear. The balls are contained in a flat steel holder, round in shape, with a flat area on the circumference. There is a little tab in the case where the balls are. You may need to take apart theclutch actuator and set all the balls in the right orientation. It makes more sense once you take it apart.

While apart, CLEAN and Grease the actuator mechanism.


Now that I have taken it apart - I know exactly what your are talking about. I did take it apart and clean all that nasty crap out greased it back up and put the case back on. With breath held, I pulled the lever - I felt the tightness of the clutch springs, so I breathed a sigh of relief, until POP again. The the cable is all loose again. So, I start taking the cover off and after I release the pressure on the second screw, it made a smaller pop again and the clutch lever is now tight again. SOoooo, I think what I failed to do was actually loosen the cable and I did the same thing. The good news (I hope) is that nothing is broken, actually, from your description, it probably isn't. The bad news is that I still have to adjust it, which apparently I have a mental block on. You know what, I bet it is easy to do - THAT is where I have my biggest problems! I always think it is going to be really difficult and try too hard and end up stressing myself out till I calm the hell down take it slowly and, yep, you guessed it, it works easy as pie. Now off to adjust this darn thing and see how that works! Thanks for the info.

Mike

[shelzmike]

So far so good. It finally "clicked" in my brain on what I needed to do. Pint helped me out by saying that the bottom and lever adjuster basically do the same thing. I was thinking that it was doing something different. Also, my bottom adjuster actually has 3 nuts - one that is the bottom one, that it is saying is the adjuster bolt, the lock nut just above that (those were all I was messing with according to the manual). However, there is a third that the cable sits in, which is smaller and a little longer. Well, turns out that top one was turning when the adjuster nut was turning and it was not supposed to be. I was literally getting nowhere, which is why I was confused.

Now the clutch engages and disengages correctly while on the stand. I have to wait a little while to actually ride it and test it because my battery went dead (that is my next assignment - to figure out why the heck that keeps happening. Pint has given me some good advice on checking - I just haven't got around to it.

So once I take it out, I will post results. Hopefully it will be hours - bc that means it works! :)

Mike

[lhurt]

Sounds like one thing at a time, you're getting that there bike licked into shape. Glad you had success with the clutch.

[dalexisv83]

Hey wondering if u had any updates on ur clutch situation.

Going thru the same thing now on my CL350.

Couldnt get the dang thing to disengage. tried tightening everything. Popped something. Cleaned and regreased everything. Still nothing. Gonna order a new cable and see what happens then.

Hope everything worked out for you. Any other advice?

[shelzmike]

Yeah, it actually turned out that it was not a cable that popped or anything. It was just the actuator was too tight and slipped over past where it was supposed to be. I just took the cover back off made sure everything was lined up right and then tightened it back - slowly this time. It still could use some fine tuning, but I will get on that during my next maintenance - should be next week some time.

Mike

[dalexisv83]

the actuator was too tight and slipped over past where it was supposed to be.

so by too tight do you mean the cable adjusting bolt on the top of the crankcase, the one by the lever, or the screw thing with the lock nut on the crankcase cover that screws into the inside?

I tightened all of the above out of frustration and basically broke the accordion plastic part and the part that keeps the sleeve capped.

When the new cable comes in im gonna leave it as loose as possible and only tighten if necessary.

Im guessing the popping is from tightening the flathead screw thing too tight. am i right? that seems to actually push everything further into the cylinder, making it slide off the tab.

At least now i really understand whats going on in there lol.

[dalexisv83]

ps i had the same problem with my battery. I kept leaving it idle to make adjustments to the idle throttle settings and that really kills the battery. Supposedly the alternator doesnt really work unless the engine is in gear. I bought a 40$ battery charger because my battery is brand new and i needed one anyways and that did the trick.