Crazy Buell Front Brake Discs: Yea or Nay?

[PassioneDucati]

I´ve always been fascinated by the distinctive style of Buell´s sportbikes, but when I saw the brake discs on the 2008 models, I almost fell out of my chair.

It looked like something from a custom show bike and I couldn´t believe Buell had the balls to put something so wild on ALL of its production models.

Personally, I don´t like it because I think it´s overdone and I think it makes the brakes look fragile/delicate, but I know nothing about Buells.

I just had to ask the real Buell fans. What is up with this? Do you like it? Gotta respect Buell for having the kojones to do this.

[tuberattler]

That is awesome!! The larger the diamater of the disc the cooler it runs and the more efficent it is and easier to stop with.

I personally think that is hot!

[Dodsfall]

I'm really surprised they don't use dual disks on the front wheel.

Tuberattler has it right. There is a lot more total surface area with this set up and cool brakes are more efficient than hot ones.

[buellosaurusrex]

They don't need dual discs and the added unsprung weight and complications that follow. The Zero Torsional Load (ZTL) brake had been a staple on all the Buells since the XB's debut in 2002 and they will literally toss you over the bars like a rodeo bull if you squeeze 'em hard enough. Think about it; why attach a small, heavy disc to the center of both hubs when you can attach a light disc to the very rim of the wheel, right where the braking force is needed? Test ride one and you'll see what I mean!

[PassioneDucati]

Wow guys I had no idea that these brakes had such a functional purpose. I thought they were just for show.

Now that I think about it, that really does make sense!

[Zack]

With the braking force on the rim, the spokes and hub are really light-weight.
The whole front wheel is about the same weight as the rear tire.
The original ZTL brake is a six piston caliper.
The ZTL2 on the 1125R is a production-grade version of the brake on the XBRR race-bike.
It has an eight piston caliper and is the best brake I've ever used.

[buellosaurusrex]

Thanks, Zack. I knew the 1125 brakes were somehow different, but sounds like they're a whole leap of technology different. Could you post some pix of your brakes close-up if you get a chance?
BTW- how was Homecoming?

[Zack]

Loretta gets a power-wash today, it's my Sunday, I'll try to get some brake shots.
I'll get some pix from Homecoming up this evening.

You can go to the Buell website, log in as an owner.
Go to "events" and clik on the 25th Anniversary, they have a bunch of pix too.

[sbkal08]

According to an article I read, there is no conclusive evidence that the ZTL is any more effective than a conventional dual disc set up. As an owner of two Buell XBs, I have not noticed any advantage save giving a full view of the gorgeous Buell front wheel. Best looking stock wheel in the business IMO. The best brakes I ever experienced were the set on my '98 ZX9R. Great feel and made a cool Zzzttt! sound when I squeezed the lever!

[buellosaurusrex]

Who wrote the article? And what do they ride? I remember the same sort of apples-to-oranges talk back when they started putting discs on the front. The naysayers said the only advantage was improved resistance to "brake fade". Wonder what they'd say now?:D

[sbkal08]

I don't remember who wrote it. I came across it while searching for performance mods to my XB12R and XB9 soon-to-be track bike. I tend to agree, though. I don't see any difference between ZTL and conventional dual set-ups.

[buellosaurusrex]

I don't remember who wrote it. I came across it while searching for performance mods to my XB12R and XB9 soon-to-be track bike. I tend to agree, though. I don't see any difference between ZTL and conventional dual set-ups.

The difference is this; LOWER UNSPRUNG WEIGHT. Stopping power on a set of dual Brembos is probably as good, or better. It's unsprung weight reduction Erik is after.

[sbkal08]

I'm just saying, I don't notice any braking difference in my daily rider XB12R than in previous dual front braked sportbikes I've owned, a '93 GSXR750 and a '02 GSXR1000. I do however, have to give the nod to my ZX9 because its brakes were simply phenomenal. I had to replace my stock brake lines on the 1K to get a similar feel of the stock Kaw. I LIKE the ZTL, but I'm not aware of increased stopping power or a more supple front end. I do have to say that the Buell front end feels a bit twitchy. Now, I don't know how much less the ZTL rotor weighs than a pair of litre bike rotors, but I have to wonder if putting that weight outboard creates more rotating mass? A centrifugal braking system on a baitcasting reel or an figure skater doing a spin comes to mind. Any physics guys reading this?

[Darth_Firebolt]

I'm just saying, I don't notice any braking difference in my daily rider XB12R than in previous dual front braked sportbikes I've owned, a '93 GSXR750 and a '02 GSXR1000. I do however, have to give the nod to my ZX9 because its brakes were simply phenomenal. I had to replace my stock brake lines on the 1K to get a similar feel of the stock Kaw. I LIKE the ZTL, but I'm not aware of increased stopping power or a more supple front end. I do have to say that the Buell front end feels a bit twitchy. Now, I don't know how much less the ZTL rotor weighs than a pair of litre bike rotors, but I have to wonder if putting that weight outboard creates more rotating mass? A centrifugal braking system on a baitcasting reel or an figure skater doing a spin comes to mind. Any physics guys reading this?

not a physics guy, but you probably don't notice the lower unsprung weight because the front suspension is tuned to take advantage of the lower weight, so it feels like the heavier front wheel on your gixxers or kawi, which have front suspensions tuned for the heavier wheel.

[SteveOrocketR6XB9]

Yay I say. Unique look and great stopping power

[Porky]

:biggrin: The single brake setup on my new Buell 1125CR works fantastic. One caliper, one rotor and a distinctive, functional look. It makes it easy to clean the rim also. Less weight helps too! Now, having said this---if only the rear brake had any stopping power at all!!!!!!

Sam:icon_cool:

[BH121869]

Everything on a Buell is there for a reason, engineered for a specific purpose. All I know is that I love my 08 Ulysses, brakes, handling, all of it. I'm on my gees I've lost track, about 18 bikes in 54 years and this is one i love.

[markk53]

According to an article I read, there is no conclusive evidence that the ZTL is any more effective than a conventional dual disc set up. As an owner of two Buell XBs, I have not noticed any advantage save giving a full view of the gorgeous Buell front wheel. Best looking stock wheel in the business IMO. The best brakes I ever experienced were the set on my '98 ZX9R. Great feel and made a cool Zzzttt! sound when I squeezed the lever!

You are right, they may not perform better than a DUAL disc set up, but they are lighter with less unsprung weight. It is all about brake swept area - the disc area and brake pad area. That single disc set up is ligher and has darn near the same swept area as a dual disc set up. If the Buell ever had a dual disc set up like that it would be so ourtrageously powerful it would be a one finger brake set up.

It's just a good set up for the road. From what I understand it is marginal on the track due to the extreme braking, but again a dual disc set up would be incredibly powerful.

By the way, the Zzzttt sound was the pads on the drilled rotor. My Zephyr does the same thing as do most bikes with drilled rotors. Kinda cool!

[markk53]

Who wrote the article? And what do they ride? I remember the same sort of apples-to-oranges talk back when they started putting discs on the front. The naysayers said the only advantage was improved resistance to "brake fade". Wonder what they'd say now?:D

They were right. A good 4 leading shoe brake can duplicate disc brake performance to an extent, except they can not shed heat as quickly as a disc set up and the brake shoes have to be arced in virually perfectly (fitted to the drum to the point where the entire shoe contacts the brake drum.

Disc brakes don't have those issues and the extremely large rotors (320 mm and the set ups like the Buell) just plain get more swept area of rotor contact to the brake pads versus the best that a four leading shoe drum can achieve. That is why disc brakes rule. More braking surface to braking material surface. The limits are greater than the drum and easier to get right.

[Flying Couch]

I've always thought it was a cool look.

As for the double-disc talk: I saw a project on another forum once where someone had an XB Lightning with a double set-up (amongst other mods). Used two of those huge ZTL brakes, and stuck one on either side of the front wheel. It looked pretty crazy, but it seemed like overkill to me.

[BH121869]

I use one finger for the front brake and can lift the rear tire up in the air with ease. It just takes very light pressure.

[ReconLdr]

The perimeter brake rotors offer more surface area to ease cooling (which prevents fade). This allows for the same amount of "whoa" as the dual disk set up at less weight and IMHO a more aestheticly pleasing package.

Note: My opinion is a little biased since I'm a huge Buell enthusiast....

[androclese]

These are a really efficient brake, not grabby at all, smooth as can be. Unless there is some kind of patent thing, these would be a good addition to any brand of sport bike.