What makes a Harley different?

[Maico Shark]

Years ago I studied motorcycles like some students study philosophers. I've tried to understand the nuances that made one brand differ from the next. The Harley Davidson difference is mainly caused by the crankshaft and connecting rods.

Most all other two cylinder engines will have the pistons fire 180 degrees apart. It makes for smoother power to do that. You've seen the crankshafts that raise one piston to the top while the other is piston is at the bottom. The shafts are offset like bicycle pedals.

Not so with Harley. Both connecting rods on a Harley are on the same journal (thanks to Hogrider). They both go up and down together. But not exactly....one will reach the top a bit ahead of the other. That's what gives the heartbeating throb of the Harley engine. Instead of the steady bing..bing..bing..bing of the more efficient twin designs you get the boom boom....boom boom....boom boom, the unmistakable sound of a Harley which happens to match the sound of a living, beating, heart.

Of course there are other unique things about the HD design but it is the staggered beat of it's heart that seems to make it a thing alive to many of the enthusiasts that love the brand.

[hollywood1959]

Nothing, And I do mean nothing, sounds like a harley. All the japs have try'd
to imitate it, but none have come close! Bar none. I live on a main road through my town and hear bikes rip up and down the road all day long. I can tell witch ones are HD's, and the one's that are not., so can my pit bulls.
They only bark when it's an HD. Go figure? If you know anything about aircraft
engines, you will see where the motor came from. It's a slice of a 9 cl. radial aircraft motor. All the pistons run on the same crankshaft, just two or three
degrees off (TDC). As do harleys. I wonder why? It works. Thats why. Nothing else. At the time it was the best thing going, so they went with it.
They needed to make money, to put a product on the market, to feed the
family. and sell a product, and, make a name for themself. They did all of that, and then some. Now we all can enjoy the fruits of their labor. Thank
you HARLEY/DAVIDSON.

ALWAYS, KEEP IT IN THE WIND<

HOLLYWOOD

[LowRiderGhost]

I think they’ll probably always be an ongoing argument out there between those that love Harley-Davidsons more then life itself, and those who consider it to be the worst thing out there since the Black Plague. I think the only thing the two main factions might ever agree on is you either hate em’ or love em’, one or the other… no in-between. I admit it…. I’m a friggin’ Harley Junkie! I love em’ more then life itself yet to this day I just still don’t know why. I always did and always will love ALL motorcycles, and I don’t care where they came from or what they’re designated niche is out there. I never ever cared to live in a vacuum and go out in the world with blinders on. In many ways being a ‘loyal’ Harley rider demands that you do just that. But despite having I like to think (or delude myself?) risen above such dictates over the years the end equation is that if given a choice (i.e. finances and situation allowing) I’ll always want to have a Harley in my life…. right up to the time comes for me to be pushing up the daisies. Nuff’ said.

LRG :cool:

[RED RIDER]

I explain it like this.

I don't watch baseball, I watch Johnny Bench
I don't watch stock car racing, I watch Rusty Wallace
I don't watch pro football, I watch Roger Staubach
I don't watch hockey, I watch the goalie
I don't ride a motorcycle, I ride a Harley

[Xianleather]

Its an American Icon...with Tremendous support .....

[SportoKing]

For me, the actual motorcycle is just a small part of what makes a Harley different. Sure you pay more for them, but your not just buying a bike, your paying dues to enter a culture. Harley owners for the most part are a group of really great people enjoying a wonderful tradition of riding American made motors.

[BH121869]

The same thing that makes a diamond different from a glass copy of one. They are an original not a copy. Glass is cheaper but will last just as long, but???

[LowRiderGhost]

Yikes?! I'm gonna' say (what I hear a LOT in here) is "how much more H-D's cost then other brands" and my response is: At least here in the Black Hills I just don't see it! Harley or otherwise, it's ALL overpriced!!! :rolleyes: Before I bought my last new (first new one in 25+ years) H-D I sure as heck was looking at other machines, including 2000cc Kawi Vulcan’s and 100ci Victories. After push came to shove did I pay a bit more (or that is to say Overpay) for a Harley?! Dang straight... WHY?! Because (at least at the time) I figured I wasn't gettin' any younger so why the frig' am I waiting?! Pennies (or preferably GOLD Doubloons) from Heaven weren’t anytime likely to be falling soon, so it was now or never. But compared to say the (yikes?) early 70’s when you could get a brand new Honda CB750 Four down in Los Angeles for (choke!) $1,295 OTD or later a 1977 H-D FXS-74 (1200cc) for about $4,000, anything now (bigger bikes) which are well into the $15,000-$20,000 range (though I swear my ‘free and clear’ pay is almost non-existent now) seems so ridiculous I honest to gawd can’t even fathom it anymore (so why try?!).

All I’m saying is DON’T sweat it – it’s only friggin’ money! And believe you me I was NOT raised to believe that! But I’ve since learned after being married for almost 20 years and have gotten somewhat older, that to live ONLY to have to deal with the nasty miserable business of money day in and day out isn’t ‘living’ at all, but a slow horrid death. IF you’re able to get that Harley (or Gold-Wing, or Duke, or whatever) then dog gone it DO it, and be happy. And if you’re not able yet, you will be someday…. I friggin’ guarantee it. Provided you’re not instead playin’ the horses, or sniffing the schitt down your nose the money will come into play eventually. Called working yer’ arse off and finally earning your dues. Nuff’ said.

Meanwhile, back to work.... :rolleyes:
LRG :cool:

[Hogrider]

They (the pistons) are on the same journal. The reason the Harley sound is so different is because the firing sequence is so irregular. Try this for a mix-up, front Bang, rotate 315 degrees then Rear Bang, rotate 405 degrees then front Bang, rotate 315 degrees and so on. Standing on the left of the bike the engine rotates counter clockwise. The Harley engine (not V-Rod) just lopes along as it has since 1903. It is a sound the rest of the industry has been trying to mimic for years and try as they will it won't happen until they too get that irregular firing of the 45 degree V-twin. As to price, I just don't see it as being more expensive except to say that if the other manufacturers built there bikes in the US they would have a much harder time holding their current price point.

[spudbike]

I had a Road King for 5 years and it was ok. I have a VTX 1800T now and like it better. But I don't understand why some people have to "belong" to any group trying to look sinister and do or die stuff. Most of the Harley riders are accountants and upper middle class people who live in a fantasy world and think they are tough. If you want tough go slap a Navy Seal.

[Firecracker]

i just like motorcycles ... I have a Suzuki now, I might ride a Harley and see if it's my next bike. I really don't have much brand loyalty. I keep telling my husband I'm going to buy an HD just so I can rock all the fabulous gear :D and he gets a real wide eyed scared look ...

[cbdallas]

Is there a point to having an irregular firing sequence? Purely to achieve that sound? Is that what causes the bike to run like an off-balance washing machine? I occasionally end up beside a Harley at a stop light and it appears that the engine is trying to escape the frame. There's a quality I'll never understand. Riding can be fatiguing enough without purposely adding to it.

[kawboyCAFE]

you want to know what makes a harley different? about $10-15,000 more for something that will last half the time.

[Dodsfall]

Before this thread gets too far along with baseless claims, please read here before posting further:

http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?t=80736

[Firecracker]

you want to know what makes a harley different? about $10-15,000 more for something that will last half the time.

I have not seen nearly that large a gap in prices. Many of the metric cruisers have come way up in price, and Harley's prices are a little lower than they used to be. Unless you're talking about CVOs or the big full-dress baggers with every option, most of the popular Harley models are in the mid to high teens, while the bigger metrics are in the low to mid teens. Sportsters go from $8000 to $10,500. Kawasaki's cruisers range from $7899 to $17299. Yamahas are $7-20k.

MSRP on a Goldwing is $22899, while the Harley touring models range from $18999-23699.

So yeah, a full dress Electra Glide Ultra Limited is $15k more than a base model metric cruiser, but they're not even close to being in the same class.

[Haglaz]

you want to know what makes a harley different? about $10-15,000 more for something that will last half the time.

I've posted a fairly comprehensive price list for various manufacturer's bikes according to classes, which includes HD, all four major Japanese brands, as well as Triumph. Please find it and correct yourself, I don't see how you can get off saying it's $10-15k more than a competitor's offering.

Again, please do some research before throwing claims around like that. In this case, you are severely misinformed and completely wrong. Throwing random numbers out like that without doing any actual fact checking just makes you look like a frothing imbecile, which doesn't help your cause.

I'd also certainly love to see some statistics behind the wide claim of "they're unreliable". I see lots of old HDs on the road - it all comes down to maintenance and care. Same as any other bike, be it Harley, Victory, Indian, metric, or even imports from other planetary systems.

Yes, I'll poke a jab at Harley riders every once in a while, but I have absolutely nothing against the bike or against people who ride them. So please do some fact checking and research before throwing out obviously biased claims.

[Haglaz]

So yeah, a full dress Electra Glide Ultra Limited is $15k more than a base model metric cruiser, but they're not even close to being in the same class.

Exactly... that leads me to believe most people hinging their arguments on the "overpriced" claim are comparing Ultras to Shadows. That's like comparing a Jaguar to a Chevy. In that sense, sure, there's a price difference, but they're not really comparable machines.

Compare Ultras to Goldwings and Sportsters to Shadows, and you'll find there's not a huge price difference. In many cases, Harleys are more affordable.

So, in case anybody missed it the first time around, here's the info I gathered and posted in another thread:


After reading this, I decided to do a little bit of price research. I'm going to admit that I'm not intimately familiar with a lot of the different classes of cruisers, so there may be some discrepancies here and there. Also note that I'm just taking base MSRPs for common models off the manufacturers' websites, not taking in extra accessories or options that may be stock on one bike and options on others. Here's what I found:

Sub-liter:
- 2010 HD 883 Low: $6,999
- 2009 Honda Shadow Spirit or Aero 750: $6,999
- 2010 V-Star 950: $8,090
- 2010 V-Star Classic (40 ci/650cc): $6,590
- 2010 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Classic: $7,899
- 2009 Suzuki Boulevard C50 (805cc): $7,799
- 2010 Triumph America (865cc): $7,999

1100-1500cc:
- 2010 HD 1200 Low: $9,899
- 2010 VTX1300: $10,199
- 2010 V-Star 1100 Classic: $9,290
- 2010 V-Star 1300 Classic: $10,290
- 2009 Boulevard C90: $11,299 (Admittedly, this doesn't really fit in line with most of these other ones, being 90ci, but they don't make anything else between 90 and 50 cubic inches, so I went with this. Take this one with a grain of salt.)
- Kawasaki and Triumph don't really make anything comparable in this class...

1500cc+:
- 2010 HD Wide Glide: $14,499
- 2010 Honda VTX1800N: $13,699
- 2009 Road Star: $12,930
- 2009 Suzuki Boulevard C109R: $14,799
- 2010 Triumph Thunderbird: $12,499
- 2010 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Classic: $11,999

Touring (sofas/"popemobiles"):
- 2010 Electra Glide Classic: $18,999
- 2010 Honda Gold Wing: $22,899
- 2010 Royal Star Venture: $18,190
- 2009 Boulevard C109RT: $15,999 (Though admittedly less "sofa-like" than some of the others)
- 2010 Triumph Rocket III Touring: $16,999
- 2010 Kawasaki Vulcan 1700 Voyager: $17,299


It's really not a clean sweep either way, for Harley or the metric bikes. They're higher on some things, lower on others. So saying that Harleys are overpriced is an extremely incorrect generalization. Like Dodsfall just said, do some actual price comparisons!

Now, am I going to buy a Harley? Unlikely. Just about as unlikely as me going out and buying a Vulcan, Shadow, V-Star or a Boulevard. Not really my thing. And of course I'm biased - I'd probably buy a Triumph cruiser over any others, but I'm not going to run around claiming that it's inherently a better bike or a better deal than all of the others. It's just something that captivated me personally.

[aaronrkelly]

Hey guys....I heard a little potato - potato noise coming from this thread and Im a bit hungry......can someone pass a potato my way.

http://inkjane.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/potato.jpg

[chip1246]

all harleys look and sound good,like many of their owners.i have a harley softail with straight pipes.i am a big beleiver that loud pipes save lives. so who does not want to look good?

[cbdallas]

all harleys look and sound good,like many of their owners.

Far funnier than any of the jokes posted on this forum in the past month or more, and there've been some doozies.

[sunflashmace7]

meh I think all bikes look good I got a harley because I got a great deal on it. Before I decided on the harley I was looking at everything else because it seems other brands sell for less used than a harley does. Bikes are awesome end of story.

[Firecracker]

My next bike might be a HD. It also might be a Kawasaki or Honda.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

Whether my Harley looks good or not is rather subjective, I'd say. If you happen to like the way it looks, great. If you think it looks like a goat's a$$, great. Neither opinion is going to effect me in the least.

Whether I look good or not, (either riding it, standing next to it, or completely on the other side of the world from it,) matters not a bit to me either. There's only one person who's opinion on my looks matters, and she's not often on this forum. <chuckle>

[Eye_m_no_angel]

I'd agree, but if he (or she) actually MEANT that statement, then I almost find it more pathetic then funny. <chuckle>

Far funnier than any of the jokes posted on this forum in the past month or more, and there've been some doozies.

[The Tourist]

I've heard the never-ending debate about Harleys and their overall cost, and the "badass factor" and the MoCo marketing, etc. But considering that aging baby-boomers make up the most of the Harley market, I think you guys might be overlooking the larger consideration.

To guys like us, a Harley is a "real motorcycle." Let me explain.

During our youth, you worked your way "up the ladder." Lots of high school guys had Honda Step-Through 50s or smaller Suzukis. They were cheap, easy to park and you didn't have to ride the school bus.

I think the turning point for these guys was the offering of the 305 Honda. Now we could go up onto the highway with a more appropriate bike.

Some guys made a mid-step jump, like to a 650cc Triumph or BSA. But when that time came and the 'boomers went off to war or college, there was a dividing line. Some of these same guy 'grew up' and perhaps never rode again for wives and families.

But to guys like me, we wanted a real-deal bike. Something that would do more miles without falling apart. Not many of us could afford a BMW, but could afford a Super-Glide or a Sportster or a Honda Four. We could even buy older police bikes.

Fast forward. Us "kids" have now been MoCo clients for several decades. When we think 'bike' we think of the bar-n-shield. We have long-term relationships with a dealer, or a salesman or a mechanic. As a younger man I worked for the franchise I now patronize.

Granted, I've owned other bikes. However, guys like my Dad always drove one brand of automobile--my Dad owned Plymouths. I've owned numerous Harleys, but I always think of myself on a Sportster.

I considered a R109 a few years back--and I still think it's a better bike than a Sportie. I feel the same about a V-Max. I just have more confidence and comfort with a Harley from my traditional dealer. No ego applies to that decision.

[Haglaz]

Honestly, that's the most reasonable explanation I've heard thus far, Tourist. Thank you.

[aaronrkelly]

Honestly, that's the most reasonable explanation I've heard thus far, Tourist. Thank you.

I second that.

Back in the day a Honda CB750, along with the HDs were "real motorcycles".....seems the translation has been lost and its just the HDs that are real.

Ive had guys on Sporsters tell me to get a "real" motorcycle while Im riding my 106ci Victory....yeah.

Thanks for the explanation.....it gives the old guys a pass and I understand the way of thinking.

However it still means the wanna-be's giving me the "get a real bike" talk under the age of 40 are just *******s.

[Rev]

I thought I would resurrect this thread with my 2 cents, some of you may be able to relate to the way I feel. I bought a 07 Geezer Glide Ultra Classic after making a very long and agonizing decision. I wanted a touring bike, of that I was certain. However, after doing all the research and lots of test rides I was torn between a GL 1800 and the Ultra. I proudly own and ride my Ultra, but will admit that the Goldwing exceeds my HD in almost every category; power, handling, breaking, wind protection... As for comfort and price they were about even. The only areas HD has an advantage is after market accessories, looks, and prestige. So this begs the question why didn't I buy the Goldwing. Because I finally sat down and figured out what I wanted in a touring bike. Goldwings are silky smooth, protect you from the elements, the engine runs under you with no sensation at all, it shifts buttery smooth, runs and sounds smooth. However, I didn't want buttery smooth. I wanted to feel the motor running under me, I want to feel the shifter click under my boot. I wanted to twist the throttle and hear the change in exhaust note as it accelerates. I didn't want to be separated and insulated from my bike and the road; I wanted to be part of my bike and the road. I was happy to give up a little power to be able to hear and feel the potato, potato, potato under me instead of the smooth delivery and sewing machine like precision of the wing. I've put 43,200 miles on my ultra in 3 years and never once regretted my decision. If I had went with the "better" machine, I wonder how many times I would have seen an Ultra and wondered "what if?"

[Kenz1]

I'm not aware of a more recent surveys than this one done in 2004 by Motorcycle Consumer News

Over 750 Harley owners returned the survey
Average mileage at time of engine failure 17,000
Only 30% went over 20,000 miles before failure

Average miles per year ridden by HD riders, less than 4,000, the lowest average miles per brand, about half of what the average Honda rider does.


JD Power Rates Harley the lowest quality rating of all the major brands. http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/motorcycles

[sunflashmace7]

That is a terrible amount of riders to be making a statistic off of 750 riders returned the survey. That is completely a realistic representation of the Harley ownership figures. Secondly 17,000 miles is a terrible figure I know a student who is running almost 400,000 miles on his 1986 sportster. The people whose motors blow around 17,000 miles are obviously not taking care of their bikes.

[markk53]

They (the pistons) are on the same journal. The reason the Harley sound is so different is because the firing sequence is so irregular. Try this for a mix-up, front Bang, rotate 315 degrees then Rear Bang, rotate 405 degrees then front Bang, rotate 315 degrees and so on. Standing on the left of the bike the engine rotates counter clockwise. The Harley engine (not V-Rod) just lopes along as it has since 1903. It is a sound the rest of the industry has been trying to mimic for years and try as they will it won't happen until they too get that irregular firing of the 45 degree V-twin. As to price, I just don't see it as being more expensive except to say that if the other manufacturers built there bikes in the US they would have a much harder time holding their current price point.

Actually they wouldn't have a problem. Seems the dollar is down, making the pricing advantage you say isn't there. Part of the reason Honda sent the bikes back to Japan while using the facilities for more car production in the U.S. which will bring in more profit considering how big their market is here. Just made business sense - the cars make more than the bikes.

As for all this feel good fest, it's interesting. Sounds like the same stuff the BMW and Gold Wing guys do when they get together. That's why I popped in here. I just wanted to see what the Harley lovefest was like. Interesting to say the least. Much like the other two groups I mentioned, actual facts don't blur the fantasy as the group pats themselves on the back and some (hopefully few) disparage all others. But hey, that's okay as long as there is respect for the rest, remember - united we stand, divided we fall. It's all about riding motorcycles. Join the AMA.

[Rev]

I'm not aware of a more recent surveys than this one done in 2004 by Motorcycle Consumer News

Over 750 Harley owners returned the survey
Average mileage at time of engine failure 17,000
Only 30% went over 20,000 miles before failure

Average miles per year ridden by HD riders, less than 4,000, the lowest average miles per brand, about half of what the average Honda rider does.


JD Power Rates Harley the lowest quality rating of all the major brands. http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/motorcycles

I guess my 43,000 was just good luck! Other than normal oil changes / tires and 1 brake job the only thing I've had to replace is a turn signal bulb. I sure am lucky! Actually I got over 90K on my last Harley too, I should play the lottery. I don't know where you pulling these bogus figures from. I would also like to see the survey. Is this a survey of 750 disgruntled Harley owners. What were the requirements for the survey, blind, double blind? Or was the survey only sent to customers who filed a complaint... We all know surveys and pollsters can get any result they want by who they survey and the way they ask their questions.

In the real world, I have NEVER known ANYONE with a Harley with a failed engine with only 17K And I know hundreds of Harley owners. Sure some times something is a little out of adjustment from the factory, but blown engines... Never seen one with that low mileage.

Please keep your misinformed "facts" and Harley bashing to yourself

[Kenz1]

I guess my 43,000 was just good luck! Other than normal oil changes / tires and 1 brake job the only thing I've had to replace is a turn signal bulb. I sure am lucky! Actually I got over 90K on my last Harley too, I should play the lottery. I don't know where you pulling these bogus figures from. I would also like to see the survey. Is this a survey of 750 disgruntled Harley owners. What were the requirements for the survey, blind, double blind? Or was the survey only sent to customers who filed a complaint... We all know surveys and pollsters can get any result they want by who they survey and the way they ask their questions.

In the real world, I have NEVER known ANYONE with a Harley with a failed engine with only 17K And I know hundreds of Harley owners. Sure some times something is a little out of adjustment from the factory, but blown engines... Never seen one with that low mileage.

Please keep your misinformed "facts" and Harley bashing to yourself

So if someone says something you don't like it's bashing? LOL.. Very mature.

Search '2004 Motorcycle Consumer News Harley Davidson survey'. They did the survey, didn't force anyone to participate, and reported their findings. I guess that's "bashing".

[aaronrkelly]

I thought I would resurrect this thread with my 2 cents, some of you may be able to relate to the way I feel.

Yes, actually I do.

Alot of those very reasons are why I choose the Victory over the GL1800......I road the Ultra, GL1800 and the Vision before deciding....I probably should have rode the BMW but didnt get a chance to.

Over on the Victory forums it looks like a group of fanboys....the Victory is faultless....everything else is lacking.

....I live in reality. The GL1800 will flat WALK all over my bike in power. The GL1800 I test rode....well, the way *I* was riding it....I was having a damn tough time keeping the front wheel on the ground....that think had serious motating capabilities....wow. The throttle is touchy and its gotta ALOT of go behind it....front wheel in the air from any stop sign, any time you wanted it....even 2 up. I was VERY impressed. It had enough power and a wide enough power band that you didnt need to downshift to drop speed going thru town....leave it in 6th....slow down.....crack the throttle on the other end of town and it had enough power to take right off, no problem.

The twin in the Victory or the HD.....is no comparison.....then again its a 2 cyl vs 6 cyl.....different animal entirely.

The GL1800 was uncomfortable for me though, my knees rubbed the fairing....my legs hurt inside of 30 mins.....no place to put them unless you pop for $$$$ Kury ISO pegs.....and even they werent great, tried a pair out on a used wing - stop gap measure at best.

The Vision has HUGE floorboard....super comfy....loved it.

In the end I, like you, opted for more "experience" while riding.

I do readily admit I do believe the GL1800 is the better bike overall, just not the better bike for me.

[aaronrkelly]

In the real world, I have NEVER known ANYONE with a Harley with a failed engine with only 17K And I know hundreds of Harley owners. Sure some times something is a little out of adjustment from the factory, but blown engines... Never seen one with that low mileage.

Please keep your misinformed "facts" and Harley bashing to yourself

Ive got a buddy setting right next to me with one...

2001 Road King....cam bearing/tensioner failure at around 12K miles....had it apart, fixed the problem.....failed again at about 42K. Normal....probably not....but it does happen....of course it happens to all brands to some degree.

[markk53]

I would take any voluntary surveys with a grain of salt. Remember, you will hear more from those dissatisfied than those that are satisfied. It's more or less a given in sales. You may please 100 customers and only one will tell someone else, but have one dissatisfied customer and they will tell 100.

I've seen threads hammering almost any brand or model. Including the Wings and BMWs. I will also say I've seen the "fanboy" threads too. Again, I think some respect is due to all.

[Dodsfall]

I'd like to remind the members here that this is not the place to post the type of postings that have been seen here in the last few days.

Please read the sticky located here:
http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?t=80736

[Kenz1]

I'd like to remind the members here that this is not the place to post the type of postings that have been seen here in the last few days.

Please read the sticky located here:
http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?t=80736

My mistake, I just click on "New Posts" and don't look at the thread origin. Have a great day and see you on the road. :icon_cool:

[CookinBeans]

"If I had to explain it, you wouldn't understand" has always been the quintessential tag for Harley to me. If you find you need to quantify and catagorize feelings, a Harley is probably not for you.
People have different colours and types of hair, eyes, senses of houmour, blah blah blah. Some folks see a Harley and they get a tug down low. It just "fits" somehow. Just asking how or why it fits shows it's time to look at Honda Accords.

For me, it's thumpers. God help me- I don't get it myself. Old BMW's and thumpers. Puppies that love to play.

The other thig about ANY brand is who owns it. I have a feeling satisfied Harley owners are not inclined to fill out questionaires.

[Graywolf51]

To me it's all about the way it feels when you’re on it. It feels like power. It vibrates like power. I have ridden several other makes of bikes and nothing imparts feeling of power like a Harley. Maybe it's the cam or whatever; I hope they never lose it.
It's also part mental. People look at Harley's differently. My buddies all ride different bikes, Honda, Suzuki cruisers. No one turns their heads until I crank up the Harley. Sorry it a fact. It's something about the sound that attracts or maybe annoys people, I don't know.
Anyway would not trade it for anything else.

[Rev]

I agree with you Graywolf. There is something about the name and sound of a Harley. When someone askes me what kind of bike I have I can say Harley without feeling funny... Like if I had to say a Gxxr or VLX something something. All I have to say is Harley and I don't have to say it's a Electra Glide, or Fat Boy, Sportster, Dayna, Super Glide... Just by saying I ride a Harley means something. When I turn on the switch and that big twin fires with its thundering lope it gives you that feeling that only Harley owners understand. There is something about sitting at a red light, something primal that makes you give it a little blip on the throttle.

What makes owning a Harley different than all the others is something that you can't point at. It is not one or two simple things that can be described. It's the way the bike makes you feel when your on it, that inward smile you get as you swing a leg over it anticipating your next ride.

[Lil' Red Rocket]

How is it that Harleys are made on a obsolete engine design, yet all the Jap bikes have to copy it.

[Graywolf51]

Well said Rev, well said indeed!

[SteveM]

Harleys are one of the originals with a history and that gives them some caché. Everything else is just a poor attempt to capitalize on that and none manage to capture your soul the way a HD does. Sure they shake and the design is old but that's the point. If you want something as reliable and bland as your toaster, then drive a Civic or Corolla.

[kabory]

What makes a Harley different
Pride of ownership

[als2052]

I just bought a new boulevard and phantom for the price of one HD and I am not sorry...

[Dodsfall]

I just bought a new boulevard and phantom for the price of one HD and I am not sorry...

You can also buy four Chinese scooters and a mini bike for the price of a Sportster. I'm glad you are enjoying your bikes.

[als2052]

You can also buy four Chinese scooters and a mini bike for the price of a Sportster. I'm glad you are enjoying your bikes.

Actually make that 6 Chinese scooters, 2 South Korean cruisers, a Malaysian minibike and two helmets made in India for the price of an 883...LOL

[kabory]

I just bought a new boulevard and phantom for the price of one HD and I am not sorry...

I did alot of research and price comparison at both Harley and Honda/Susuki/Yamaha dealers and found when comparing bikes in the same category prices were about the same. Here is an example

2011 Honda Shadow Phantom, list $7999.00
2011 Harley Superlow , list $7999.00

I owned 2 Hondas and 1 Kymco before my Harley. All good bikes. The difference with the Harley is the dealer was more willing to negotiate price than the Honda dealers. I would have paid more for a Honda Fury than my Harley wide glide. Plus no more plastic bike. lol

[Dodsfall]

2011 Honda Shadow Phantom, list $7999.00
2011 Harley Superlow , list $7999.00


You can look at the resale values of those two bikes in five years and see a difference in price. :D

Contrary to popular myth, Harley makes competitively-priced bikes in several different categories. Yes, a full dresser HD is going to be more than a 750CC Japanese cruiser. Compare the prices to the Japanese touring bikes and you will see that they line up very closely.

The Sportster and Dyna lines have just about the best value (and lowest price) of any of the comparable-sized Vtwins on the market. All it takes is a trip to the manufacturer's websites to confirm what I'm saying.

[als2052]

I did alot of research and price comparison at both Harley and Honda/Susuki/Yamaha dealers and found when comparing bikes in the same category prices were about the same. Here is an example

2011 Honda Shadow Phantom, list $7999.00
2011 Harley Superlow , list $7999.00

I owned 2 Hondas and 1 Kymco before my Harley. All good bikes. The difference with the Harley is the dealer was more willing to negotiate price than the Honda dealers. I would have paid more for a Honda Fury than my Harley wide glide. Plus no more plastic bike. lol

But with Superlow, you are not getting EFI, shaft drive or liquid cool...

[Dodsfall]

But with Superlow, you are not getting EFI, shaft drive or liquid cool...

You get air cooling, EFI and belt drive. I count all of those as a plus, personally.

[kabory]

But with Superlow, you are not getting EFI, shaft drive or liquid cool...

you are correct except for the EFI.

POWERTRAIN
Engine 3 Air-cooled, Evolution®Air-cooled, Evolution®
Displacement 53.9 cu. in.883 cc
Bore x Stroke 3 in. / 3.812 in.76.2 mm / 96.8 mm
Engine Torque J1349J1349
Engine Torque 4 55 ft. lbs. @ 3500 rpm75 Nm @ 3500 rpm
Fuel System 5 Electronic Sequential Port Fuel Injection (ESPFI)Electronic Sequential Port Fuel Injection (ESPFI)
Compression Ratio 8.9:18.9:1
Primary Drive Chain, 57/34 ratioChain, 57/34 ratio
Fuel Economy
Fuel Economy City 6 45 mpg5.23 l/100 km
Fuel Economy Hwy 6 60 mpg

[Eye_m_no_angel]

I just bought a new boulevard and phantom for the price of one HD and I am not sorry...

Nor should you be sorry. "Take pride in your ride," right?

I know I'm quite happy with the scoots I have, and as so, really have no reason or motivation to denigrate what another person chooses to ride. Like, would I just jump into a thread that's about Phantom or Boulevard riders discussing what they like about their scoots and say ANYthing about my Harleys? Of course not. That would be rude, imature, and childish.

So anyway, how about post a few pics of you on your Boulevard and your Phantom? I think a Boulevard is made by Suzuki, (yes?) but I have no idea what a Phantom is, nor do I really know anything about either one. You're obviously very proud of them, so show us your pride.

[hogcowboy]

I'll tell you what makes a Harely different. It's designed in America and built in America. And everyone wants to copy them. Imitation is the truest form of flattery. I put 63,000 miles on a FLHTC and would buy another one in a heartbeat if the price was right. I have a VTX right now but I still like the Harely. There's just nothing like one. It's true you get a little extra pride when you own one. Nothing wrong with that.:thumbsup:

[V8Thrasher]

When I get more experience I want to get a Yamaha Midnight Warrior. Personally I think ALL the cruisers from Yamaha look much MUCH better than any Harley. I also know stock for stock Harleys are terrible performers. The VROD is good, in a straight line, but many "Sport Cruisers" such as the Yamaha Warrior, Ducati Diavel, Yamaha VMAX, Suzuki Boulevard, Kawasaki Vulcan, etc. just far outperform a HD in a straightaway and in the twisties.

I used to want a Harley Davidson soooooo bad. But the more I looked into them the more I found out they are nothing special. I MAY get a used Sportster down the line and make a bobber out of it, but personally...Id be happy with an overseas cruiser being able to run circles around an HD.

Just my opinion anyways...

[Eye_m_no_angel]

When I get more experience I want to get a Yamaha Midnight Warrior. Personally I think ALL the cruisers from Yamaha look much MUCH better than any Harley. I also know stock for stock Harleys are terrible performers. The VROD is good, in a straight line, but many "Sport Cruisers" such as the Yamaha Warrior, Ducati Diavel, Yamaha VMAX, Suzuki Boulevard, Kawasaki Vulcan, etc. just far outperform a HD in a straightaway and in the twisties.

I used to want a Harley Davidson soooooo bad. But the more I looked into them the more I found out they are nothing special. I MAY get a used Sportster down the line and make a bobber out of it, but personally...Id be happy with an overseas cruiser being able to run circles around an HD.

Just my opinion anyways...


So, what are you riding now Sport?

[V8Thrasher]

So, what are you riding now Sport?

Nothing actually :p I am a new rider currently on the prowl for a first bike! My options are between the Yamaha VStar, Kawasaki Vulcan, Suzuki S40,or Honda Shadow. Just looking for the right bike/price.

I would love to learn on a Harley Sportser, and end up keeping the bike, but Im not going to find one for under 3k. I hate how everyone thinks their HD is worth so freakin much. Puts us guys on a budget in a slump :thumbsdown:

[TwoWheelTony]

I am trying to get 3 posts in so that I might share little story so I will make this quick. In 1973, at 4 years old, I got my first mini bike, Monkey Wards special. Eventually, a little Honda Trail, then CR 80, 125, 250, etc... Had an Interceptor in mid 80's, couple Gixers, and landed home, with my first American bike, Dyna, Street Bob. Anyway, I ride with a lot of guys, in their defense, they did not put in the saddle time, with micro cruisers and American bikes. Be able to ride before you worry about what you ride.

Tone

[V8Thrasher]

I am trying to get 3 posts in so that I might share little story so I will make this quick. In 1973, at 4 years old, I got my first mini bike, Monkey Wards special. Eventually, a little Honda Trail, then CR 80, 125, 250, etc... Had an Interceptor in mid 80's, couple Gixers, and landed home, with my first American bike, Dyna, Street Bob. Anyway, I ride with a lot of guys, in their defense, they did not put in the saddle time, with micro cruisers and American bikes. Be able to ride before you worry about what you ride.

Tone


thats why im looking for a basic cruiser to start out on, then when I have the experience, ill worry about getting my Midnight Warrior.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

I agree that some Harley owners think their bikes are worth more then they truly are, but the fact remains that a used Harley will almost always command a higher price then a comparable used metric. People just value them more, and that's the way it is.

Still, around here, (Daytona Beach Florida,) you can find several used Sportsters in the 3-3,5K range. Even so, a Sportster isn't really the best bike to learn on, so I'd agree that your best bet would be to find an inexpensive metric cruiser to start riding. I also agree with Tony...worry about learning to ride before you worry too much about what it is that you're riding.

[TwoWheelTony]

The bike is worth what the market will bring. Once you let go of your baby, your connection to the open road, who gives a damn how much it is worth! Ride my friends, ride! Why do I ride an HD instead of anything else? That is my information, not for anyone else to know. Same reason why some ride other machines. It's their insider info, no one else is to know, you cannot, you are not me, I am not you. I can give you a spark though... Two days after my sis' was born on Oct. 23, 1975, I saw and met my hero, watched that crazy man jump a few buses, got a head pat, and was given a Scooby Snack to chew on for the rest of my life!

[JROBER]

Well I may as well give my .02. Hard locking bags with space to put things in. Dual exhaust that comes out each side of the bike, I like the look not sure why more metrics have not done this. They would all so be able to make a bigger hard bags that you could fit something in. Tour pac that can be added and removed in seconds. Every accessory or piece of chrome that you would ever want you can get and install with no problems, your not going to pick something out of a kuryakyn book to find out you can not get it for your bike. The sound, the look.

Someone said before that Harley owners think their bikes are worth more than they are. I think that is in every group of bikers (or sellers of anything). I do not think this is a Harley thing its a sellers thing. Maybe you do not see it with metrics as much as Harleys because the metric guy is upgrading (to a harley, LOL) and wants to get rid of it fast or he never rides it like he thought he would and its been sitting in the garage. I think when you are buying you need to take your time know what you want to spend and do not sell yourself short it may take a year but you will find a deal out there. As long as your being reasonable.

[V8Thrasher]

Thanks guys. Ive been thinking, the reason im sort of bitter towards Harley Davidsons, is because I dont have one, and cant have one right now. lol I know childish, but ever since I was a kid I wanted a cruiser, and everytime a bike passes by I look and think my god thats a nice bike, and I see they are HDs. I still want my Midnight Warrior, Im in love with that bike, but I want a Harley Sportster 1200 at some point, Do they still have the "Evo" motors? Ive read those are the most reliable Harley engines, and the ones you can work on and get great gains(I have a 71 Chevelle that I tinker around with, idk how different a car is from a motorcycle deep down but its not like im mechanically incompetent lol). I know im literally at the very bottom of the motorcycle ladder right now: new rider, inexperienced, not even with my own bike yet (but looking); but I am willing to learn so I can ride a bike that I am proud of to have. Hopefully one day have that big V-Twin under me :D

[Eye_m_no_angel]

You know, you're the firt person I've seen to actually admit that. <chuckle> You just brought a smile to my mug this morning.

As for being "on the bottom of the motorcycle ladder," don't sweat it. EVERY rider, no matter how experienced, had to start somewhere. And a lot of them seem to forget that too. And other then the extremely rich or blessed, not a one bought the bike they wanted the most as a first bike. Be it a Midnight Warrior or a Sportster, you'll get the bike(s) you want as long as you stay focused on that goal.

Sporsters being the most reliable? Well, almost any modern Harley, the same with most any modern metric, is a reliable bike as long as it's been maintained and taken care of. Yes, Sportsters still have the Evo engine, and there's a lot you can do to them. Not as much as a big twin, but the sky's almost the limit. Of course, the more you alter them the less relaible they're going to be, but that's part of the game.

And the basic principles of that engine are the same as your car: It has cylinders, pistons, crankshaft, and so on, and it needs fuel and spark and so forth, but with a bike it's all crammed into a much smaller space. Also, with the newer bikes the technology used to make what's basicaly an older design is vastly improved. No matter what you get, if you're going to keep it, invest in a factory shop manual.

Anyway, welcome to the world of motorcycling. Once bitten it's an addiction that doesn't get any better with time. And good luck with your first bike, and every one you own after that. Have fun and enjoy. That's the whole point of it.

[sunflashmace7]

I love both my suzuki and my Harley.As to which one is the better bike well I honestly could't tell you because I do not see myself letting one stay more awesome than the other anytime soon.

[Lil' Red Rocket]

What makes a Harley different?

About 10 grand

[kabory]

About 10 grand

you obviously have no clue

[kabory]

The bike is worth what the market will bring. Once you let go of your baby, your connection to the open road, who gives a damn how much it is worth! Ride my friends, ride! Why do I ride an HD instead of anything else? That is my information, not for anyone else to know. Same reason why some ride other machines. It's their insider info, no one else is to know, you cannot, you are not me, I am not you. I can give you a spark though... Two days after my sis' was born on Oct. 23, 1975, I saw and met my hero, watched that crazy man jump a few buses, got a head pat, and was given a Scooby Snack to chew on for the rest of my life!

Yeah I wish Evil was still around kickin some a$$

[Lil' Red Rocket]

you obviously have no clue

Oh really, do tell

[ungerbeast]

I still feel that with a Harley you are paying for the name.

[OTD]

I still feel that with a Harley you are paying for the name.


Well when I bought mine they threw in a motorcycle.
And a stereo, cruise, nice big comfy seat.............

[OTD]

Oh really, do tell

Doesn't really need splained Lucy it's one of those statements that those of us who know won't share.:thumbsup:

[Eye_m_no_angel]

well when i bought mine they threw in a motorcycle.
And a stereo, cruise, nice big comfy seat.............

lol!

[ReconLdr]

"If I had to explain it, you wouldn't understand" has always been the quintessential tag for Harley to me. If you find you need to quantify and catagorize feelings, a Harley is probably not for you.
People have different colours and types of hair, eyes, senses of houmour, blah blah blah. Some folks see a Harley and they get a tug down low. It just "fits" somehow. Just asking how or why it fits shows it's time to look at Honda Accords.

For me, it's thumpers. God help me- I don't get it myself. Old BMW's and thumpers. Puppies that love to play.

The other thig about ANY brand is who owns it. I have a feeling satisfied Harley owners are not inclined to fill out questionaires.

Harley owners are too busy out riding their bikes to fill out a silly questionare....

Thanks guys. Ive been thinking, the reason im sort of bitter towards Harley Davidsons, is because I dont have one, and cant have one right now. lol I know childish, but ever since I was a kid I wanted a cruiser, and everytime a bike passes by I look and think my god thats a nice bike, and I see they are HDs. I still want my Midnight Warrior, Im in love with that bike, but I want a Harley Sportster 1200 at some point, Do they still have the "Evo" motors? Ive read those are the most reliable Harley engines, and the ones you can work on and get great gains(I have a 71 Chevelle that I tinker around with, idk how different a car is from a motorcycle deep down but its not like im mechanically incompetent lol). I know im literally at the very bottom of the motorcycle ladder right now: new rider, inexperienced, not even with my own bike yet (but looking); but I am willing to learn so I can ride a bike that I am proud of to have. Hopefully one day have that big V-Twin under me :D

Harley advertises "You can buy a new Harley for $6.oo a day". Just sayin'....

[nitemare]

Thanks guys. Ive been thinking, the reason im sort of bitter towards Harley Davidsons, is because I dont have one, and cant have one right now. lol I know childish, but ever since I was a kid I wanted a cruiser, and everytime a bike passes by I look and think my god thats a nice bike, and I see they are HDs. I still want my Midnight Warrior, Im in love with that bike, but I want a Harley Sportster 1200 at some point, Do they still have the "Evo" motors? Ive read those are the most reliable Harley engines, and the ones you can work on and get great gains(I have a 71 Chevelle that I tinker around with, idk how different a car is from a motorcycle deep down but its not like im mechanically incompetent lol). I know im literally at the very bottom of the motorcycle ladder right now: new rider, inexperienced, not even with my own bike yet (but looking); but I am willing to learn so I can ride a bike that I am proud of to have. Hopefully one day have that big V-Twin under me :D

hey.....it will happen if u want , take care, ride safe'

[nitemare]

im thinking of changing my fender from a Taildragger to a Sumax Streetsweeper fiberglass, their site says the are just as strong as steel, "does that mean carring a passenger"?? what should i do????

[zmago]

Well when I bought mine they threw in a motorcycle.
And a stereo, cruise, nice big comfy seat.............

Hm... now you've got me thinking... :coffeescreen:

[BH121869]

I can't think of a real good answer to this one. I've always loved the bikes hated the co and the way they do business. I just want to say some people think they R made in america. No they haven;t been in about 35 years. My 79 sportst i bought new. Took it home was waxing it and saw the bottom tripple tree had stamped in it, MADE IN JAPAN. Later I removed the air cleaner cover and it too was also made in Japan. How do you think i felt???

[Eye_m_no_angel]

"I just want to say some people think they R made in america. No they haven;t been in about 35 years."

<chuckle> I did need a smile this evening. Thanks.

[jimired]

you want to know what makes a harley different? about $10-15,000 more for something that will last half the time.

ive put 240.000 miles on mine.how much do you have

[JakePoppa]

The loud pipes and and homosexual testosterone.

I ride one

[zmago]

They don't use metric fasteners.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

You're not required to wave anymore.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

Oh wait....wrong thread?

[phatguy36]

Harley's are the Coach bags of the motorcycle world. Every bee-otch has got to have one. Me personally, I don't care what name it has on it, as long as it has two wheels and it go forward.

[aaronrkelly]

Harley's are the Coach bags of the motorcycle world. Every bee-otch has got to have one. Me personally, I don't care what name it has on it, as long as it has two wheels and it go forward.


Theres this 19yr old girl that works with me......she drives a Ford Ranger with Harley seat covers.

.....so it goes like this....

Me: "do you ride"

Her: "huh?"

M: "do you ride a motorcycle"

H: "no....why would you think that"

M: "the Harley seat covers in your truck"

H: "oh....those.....my boyfriend got those for me"

M: "oh....so he rides"

H: "no"

WTF?!

:rolleyes:

[Badlands-4-2]

At least the seats were in a Ford. I saw a big Harley decal that said American Pride on the back window of a Honda SUV at the grocery store the other day.

[aaronrkelly]

At least the seats were in a Ford. I saw a big Harley decal that said American Pride on the back window of a Honda SUV at the grocery store the other day.

Wow.....

I ride foreign and American.....I understand the whole "global market" and I grasp that alot of Honda vehicles ARE made in USA.....but still.....Id never feel comfortable putting such a sticker on a Honda.....

.....but then I would put it on a Dodge anymore either.

[Badlands-4-2]

Agreed, my Ford was made in Canada, but the only decal I have on it was the Stargate symbol for Earth. (yes, I am occasionally just that geeky)

[Eye_m_no_angel]

You don't have to own something, or ride it in this case, to like it. Or even in some cases to just like the symbol for it's own sake. I've got a "Red Ember Cycles" shirt but have never bought a bike there, I just like the logo. I don't play for the Carolina Hurricanes, but I wear one of their sweaters. I like the team. You see that kind of thing all over with people wearing logos of colleges they never attended, biker bars they may not have been to, sports teams they never played for, and on and on.

But for whatever reason you just don't see as much of that happening with metric bikes, and some of the metric riders get a little jealous or resentful or something. Why that should be exactly, I don't know.

I've seen Victory logos on shirts, (nice looking,) and even a rare Honda or Kawasaki now and then. Did the people wearing them ride that brand, or even ride at all? Don't know, don't care.





Theres this 19yr old girl that works with me......she drives a Ford Ranger with Harley seat covers.

.....so it goes like this....

Me: "do you ride"

Her: "huh?"

M: "do you ride a motorcycle"

H: "no....why would you think that"

M: "the Harley seat covers in your truck"

H: "oh....those.....my boyfriend got those for me"

M: "oh....so he rides"

H: "no"

WTF?!

:rolleyes:

[gsxralex]

In my opinion its the air cooling which is a huge disappointment.

I am into sports bike rather than cruisers. But i know that Honda makes a bike which is much more reliable and durable than a Harley. The biggest benefit is that they are liquid cooled.

AND cheaper too. So you get the performance, durability, and a reasonable cost all in one.

[aaronrkelly]

In my opinion its the air cooling which is a huge disappointment.

I am into sports bike rather than cruisers. But i know that Honda makes a bike which is much more reliable and durable than a Harley. The biggest benefit is that they are liquid cooled.

AND cheaper too. So you get the performance, durability, and a reasonable cost all in one.

Id like to preface this with Im NOT a Harley fan. Im not a hater.....Im just not a fan. I dont think they make anything that interests me at all (current production).

****

Lets start out with "Honda makes a bike more reliable and durable than a Harley".

Which Honda.....which Harley - thats one HELL of a blanket statement and one I could argue the other way.

I say "Harley makes a bike thats more reliable and durable then a Honda". I could compare a Harley Street Glide to a Honda CRF250F. I guarantee you take those two bikes out on the highway and ride till they blow......your going to pick the Honda up in bits.

......broad brush, long strokes....your comment was about as pointless as mine.....see my point.

When your making a point try to be more specific.....like a Honda Goldwing is more reliable and durable then a Harley Ultra Glide.

On this comment Id agree they Honda is more reliable....but I wont agree its more durable. Anywho....on with it.

********

Next comment "the biggest beneift is they are liquid cooled".

Well Harley actually does make a liquid cooled bike (VRod), but that aside what benefit are you talking about.

There are pros and cons to liquid cooling vs air cooled. I wouldnt say liquid cooling is a overall "benefit".

Ive got bikes both ways.

When Im hammering away doing my adventure riding I HATE the fact my KLR650 is liquid cooled....Id much rather have a Suzuki DR650, which is air cooled....because every time I drop it, tag a tree, find myself in the bottom of a ditch etc I have to stop and make sure I didnt ruin a radiator.....loose a **** load of coolant etc. Liquid cooling adds more "complication".....more wear parts, more fluids.....extra weight....etc.

How when where in stop and go traffic.....in the blazing heat......and my air cooled (actually oil cooled, but we wont get into that) Victory is baking the inside of my legs to a crisp and I look over and my GF is riding my liquid cooled BMW happy as a pig eating ****, cool as a cucumber.....thats a hell of a pro for liquid cooling.

Its has its places.....buts it not "overall" better.

**********

"AND cheaper to"



Lets actually do a real world comparison of similar sized bikes.....lets say a Honda 1300 Custom.

The VTX line has has prices ranging from $12100 to $13200 for base prices. 1300cc is about 80ci.

Harley doesnt have anything 80ci.....but they have bikes 1200cc. Next they have 96cu in bikes.....which is 16ci MORE motor. 16ci is about 260cc. So these bikes are 1560cc.....thats quite a bit more displacement.

Both the 96ci (1560cc) Street Bob and Super Glide cost $12999. The 1300cc Honda ranges from $12100 to $13200.....hmm....seems comparable price wise....despite the fact the Honda has a much smaller displacement.

Now if we compare the 1300cc Honda to the 1200cc Harley (hey THATs not fair.....I can hear it already)......the HD 1200 Custom is $10200. That seems to be about $2000 LESS then the Honda.

Harley....well, just as cheap as Honda.

Wanna compare a Goldwing to an Ultra.....

The Ultra starts at $21,800.....the Goldwing $23,990.....WHAT!!!!

.....yeah, the Honda is MORE expensive.

************

"So you get the performance, durability, and a reasonable cost all in one."

Thats true with almost ANY currently produced motorcycle. Im a realist.....not a Honda or Harley fanboy.

[Dodsfall]

You forgot to compare the CVO (Custom Vehicle Operations- limited edition models) prices to the base model competition. :D

[gcbengal]

Am I just weird or different because I pretty much like all brands? I have owned Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki and plan on looking hard at a HD and a Kawasaki the next time I buy.

[Critter]

Let's be honest folks, is there a rider out there that doesn't want a Harley. They may never buy one but they also wouldn't throw it out with the bath water either.

I started riding in the 60's on Hondas. Graduated to a BSA, then back to a Honda. Why, cost of a used bike was the only reason.

I quit riding about 25 years ago and I am getting back in the saddle next month. What will I be riding? A Yamaha, why? Price. Picked up a used 04 VStar Silverado for a price I couldn't pass up. At the price I paid I won't be upset if I drop it practicing slow speed manuvers.

Did I look at Harleys? You bet I did, but in the used bike department, Harleys still demand top dollar. I have ridden many different Harleys, some I liked some I didn't. When I upgrade to a larger bike I will look at Harleys along with the others.

What will I buy? Don't know depends on the price or if Eye wants to sell his hotrod. You guys will know what I get when I get it.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

It's always for sale if the price is right. OR....you could start collecting parts and build your own. As long as you don't want me to turn a wrench, advice is always free.

I've had many different kinds of bikes too, and I have enjoyed every one of them. I prefer Harleys for many reasons, but if I had more room and more money there would be a few different brands in the garage as well. But since that isn't the case I'll stick to what I know and what I love.

Not everyone wants a Harley, that's for sure, and I get that. What cracks me up though are the people that feel so threatened by the brand that they have to constantly make comments about them. Usually they're the ones that have never owned one and know very little about them too, which makes it even more silly. The Japanese and the Brits and the Italians and others make some nice motorcycles, I'll admit that, but just because I don't own one doesn't make me feel the need to talk chit about them. If you have to denigrate someone else's ride then there's something you're not happy about with your own.

And no matter what brand you ride, if you park it and don't turn around when you're walking away, give it a glance, and think, "Heck yeah...." you bought the wrong bike.

[Critter]

And no matter what brand you ride, if you park it and don't turn around when you're walking away, give it a glance, and think, "Heck yeah...." you bought the wrong bike.

^^^^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^^^^^^


Dollar down, dollar a month?

[Eye_m_no_angel]

I'm sucker-free. Cash on the barrel head, Jack.

[Eye_m_no_angel]

"Motoracist. motoracism and motobigots suck, IMO."

Great terms.....lol....But I would use them to describe people that drive cars and don't like motorcyclists.

Just because someone chooses to ride a Harley, or a BMW, or a Kawasaki, or whatever, doesn't automatically make them a motobigot. It's a personal preference and a choice. I know what I like and that's what I chose and there's really no point in trying to kid anyone that I'd choose anything different.

Same as you: A Harley is not on your list and that's cool. That doesn't bother me in the least.