Free Left Hand Turn At Light onto One Way Street

[HarveyCreek]

Here in Oregon its legal to make a free left hand on to a one way street even when you are turning from a two lane road. Today I found myself needing to turn onto a one way street from a boulevard with a left hand turn lane and turn light controlled by a sensor that my bike wouldn't trigger. Once traffic cleared I took the turn and was followed by a bicyclist who even followed me into my parking garage and then proceeded to lecture me on how illegal what I did was. (even though he followed me through the light). His point was that when there is an light with an arrow, the free left turn rule doesn't apply. I have always understood that it only doesn't apply when there is some sign stating turns can only be made on green.

Anyone out there know which of us is correct about making a free left onto a one way street with a arrow signaled intersection?

[subwofer2]

Not sure how it works in your state but this is what MN has to say about it in the Motercycle Manual:

Red Light, Green Light:
Minnesota Law
In 2002, the Minnesota legislature
passed a law to address instances when
two-wheeled vehicles are not detected
by control systems at traffic lights, and
a signal change does not occur.
The law gives motorcyclists and
moped riders the option to proceed
through the intersection after a reasonable
amount of time, and provides an
affirmative legal defense to this action,
based on five conditions:
• The motorcycle or moped has been
brought to a complete stop.
xii
• The traffic-control signal
continues to show a red light for
an unreasonable time.
• The traffic-control signal is
apparently malfunctioning or,
if programmed to change to a
green light only after detecting
the approach of a motor vehicle,
the signal has apparently failed
to detect the motorcycle.
• No vehicle or person is approaching
on the roadway to be crossed
or entered, or
• Approaching vehicles or persons
are so far away that they do not
constitute an immediate hazard.
The affirmative defense applies
only to an alleged violation for
entering or crossing an intersection
controlled by a traffic-control signal
against a red light. It does not provide
a defense to any other civil or
criminal action.


Page xi-xii:
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs/DLTraining/DLManual/PDF/2007_Motorcycle_Manual.pdf

[stuco]

I don't think you are supposed to make a left turn unless there is a green turn signal on that type of light but since you were on a bike and it wouldn't trigger it I think what you did was ok. You would think that a bicyclist would understand but some guys just feel that they need to tell people what to do.

[axmurderer]

yeah, I've had that happen before and its a tough call on what to do. I usually try to wait to see if a car will come up behind me and trigger the light, but I can only wait so long...

[greyboyfan]

Theres a light that I have to go thru on my way to work, that often does not change for me after stopping and waiting a reasonable amount of time. Sinse there is very little other trafic at that time of day, Hey! Just using a little common sense. I look both ways, notice that I am the only vehicle within 4 miles in any direction, and say to myself, Screw this! I'm goin'. Fortunatly, no police have been hiding in a dark spot. But, I have mulled over in my mind, what I'm gonna say if I do get stopped. It may not help, but I'm gonna say it.

[iamgumby]

So long as it wasn't a bibycle cop who cares! No really...I would think if there was NOT a sign that said to effect "left turn on green arrow only" you were good!

[TFee3]

Harvey, I might suggest you enter Oregon's website and do a search on the matter. It's always best to research rather than take opinions, not saying, of course, that someone here isn't right. I live in Missouri, so I have no idea.

[shelzmike]

I would think if there was NOT a sign that said to effect "left turn on green arrow only" you were good!

Yes, but still even if it did have "Left turn on green arrow only" and the bike wouldn't trigger the signal, what are you supposed to do? Sit there forever? I wouldn't.

The only problem that I see with the law listed above is that "unreasonable" and "reasonable" amount of time is very vague. I would feel better about it if you were given a specific amount of time.

This same thing happens to me all the time in my car at one particular light by my house. There is a major cutthrough that goes beside a warehouse that has a light facing where you would stop and the cross section of a road. Not sure why they put it there, but there is not even any sensors under the road as it is gravel. The only time it ever changes is when a car on the street in front of me pulls up. Depending on what time of day it is, this may not happen for a long time and other times, it is almost immediately. I usually sit there for about 1 minute exactly then wait for traffic to clear. Once it does I am done. So far so good.

I am not sure what the law is in Virginia, but I just wrote an email to the State Police to ask them. I will update what they tell me here for everyone's information.

Mike

[Voltaic Shock]

Anyone have any idea where to find this information for Virginia?

[shelzmike]

I looked, but could not find it offhand (I am VA too). See my post above - I sent an email to the state police in an effort to get a response back. I may give them a call in a while to see if I get a response.

Mike

[shelzmike]

Well, I got a BS response (unless it is actually true). Here is the email:

Dear Mr. Miller:

Lieutenant Colonel E.A. Stockton, Director of the Bureau of Field Operations for the Virginia State Police asked that I thank you for and respond to your e-mail of May 29, 2008 concerning motorcycle safe red light laws.

I am not aware of any law in the Commonwealth of Virginia that permits motorcycle riders authorization to proceed through any red light traffic signal unless under the direction of a police officer.

I hope this address your concern.
Bud Cox
Business Manager
Virginia State Police
804-674-2127
Bud.Cox@vsp.virginia.gov


This is what I wrote him back:

Mr. Cox –

I appreciate your quick response. This is good to know; however, it still leaves the question unanswered – what if the signal sensor does not pick up the motorcycle and the light does not change? Are we to sit there (no matter how long) until the light changes? I only ask because I live in a pretty rural area and could be sitting for 15-30 minutes (or more) if this is true. Thanks again.


Let's see what kind of response we get from this.

I am taking the MSF this Friday/Sat/ and Sunday - I will ask them as they may have better insight into the matter.

Mike

[shelzmike]

Here is his reply to my above question - what a crock -

Mr. Miller,

I certainly understand your dilemma, but there is no provision to permit proceeding through a red light regardless of the circumstances. An alternative would be to merge back into the through traffic until you can make a legal u-turn, or try to reposition the motorcycle on the sensor to activate the traffic signal for your lane.

I hope this is helpful.

Bud Cox

[Voltaic Shock]

Sounds like VA laws to me! - :P

[shelzmike]

Yeah, me too! And how could he possibly come across as a prick in the email as well? That must be a job requirement of VA SP. Our locals are pretty laid back and cool, but the state police, forget about it.

I will still ask at the MSF course, as they would (I am sure) have a better answer than this. Wouldn't it be more dangerous to merge back into traffic and do a U turn (oh sorry, LEGAL U turn)?

Mike

[CaptCrashIdaho]

I will still ask at the MSF course, as they would (I am sure) have a better answer than this. Wouldn't it be more dangerous to merge back into traffic and do a U turn (oh sorry, LEGAL U turn)?

Mike

Oh no they won't. Here in Idaho it's legal to proceed through a redlight after it's failed to register you for 2 cycles of the light...which is great if you're hung up in a left hand turn lane and it doesn't register you.

BUT the law says "2 cycles of the light"...and if you're at a 4 way with no turn signals--THE LIGHT DOESN'T CYCLE!

So at the Idaho STAR classes, when asked "what's the law on proceeding through reds?" They are trained to answer: ASK THE IDAHO STATE POLICE! We're not really sure.

[shelzmike]

Ha!, Well, in my case, they had the SAME answer (as the state police) Reason being - they were the Sheriff and his Major from the local county! (They were both really cool by the way), but I asked Laura, the Major, and she said, "Well, I am certainly not going to TELL you that is is OKAY" and smiled while she was saying it. She gave other alternatives, which were a little different than what the SP offered. Basically, I think I got the gist that she was saying it was pretty much my call, but that "technically" there was no law on the books saying so. To be quite honest, in this situation, it really wouldn't matter to me if there is a law or not. I mean, I am law-ABIDING, not law-Worshipping. If I felt I had waited long enougha and it was safe, I would proceed. If I get pulled, hopefully I can explain my case to the officer and not get a ticket. It I do, maybe I can explain it to the judge and get it dismissed. More than likely the latter would not happen, but sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

Mike

[Voltaic Shock]

Ha!, Well, in my case, they had the SAME answer (as the state police) Reason being - they were the Sheriff and his Major from the local county! (They were both really cool by the way), but I asked Laura, the Major, and she said, "Well, I am certainly not going to TELL you that is is OKAY" and smiled while she was saying it. She gave other alternatives, which were a little different than what the SP offered. Basically, I think I got the gist that she was saying it was pretty much my call, but that "technically" there was no law on the books saying so. To be quite honest, in this situation, it really wouldn't matter to me if there is a law or not. I mean, I am law-ABIDING, not law-Worshipping. If I felt I had waited long enougha and it was safe, I would proceed. If I get pulled, hopefully I can explain my case to the officer and not get a ticket. It I do, maybe I can explain it to the judge and get it dismissed. More than likely the latter would not happen, but sometimes you got to do what you got to do.

Mike

Maybe if this happens, you can get a law put into place - :P