Travelin' and Carryin' [Archive]

JimmyAcorn

01-23-2008, 11:29 AM

my wife and I both Cary and ya you have to be careful about what state your in but if you don't get stop ed they never know but you face going to jail ,so
i just keep track of the states laws and unload where I need to ,
I cad still Cary I juts don't have ammo close well I hope I never need it any way!!!!!!,but I still have it on me just not loaded ,witch in some states,
I still go to jail but again if you don't get stopped ,then no one knows ,guess ,
you take your chances ether way .:D :D :D :eek: :eek:

Biker Bob

Plus, like Kentucky, in Texas you can shoot your OL if she's messin' around with your cousin. :D :D Damn I'm sorry Bob. Sometimes I just can't help myself. However, it use to be that you can drink and drive in Texas but if you get out your car with the beer you go to jail. Is that still the case? Better answer in another forum topic area. Dont' wanna hijack this thread. Sorry

Peace

rocksolid

01-24-2008, 12:49 AM

It's pretty much the same old story for most states. If the gun is empty and cased and the ammo is seperately stored, your OK. Here is MD. which doesn't honor my Pa. permit.

Can I legally transport firearms interstate? (From the MD State Police)
A. Yes, under Title 18, Section 926A, of the United States Code, a person
who is not prohibited from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving
a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose
from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to
any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during
such transportation the firearm is unloaded, neither the firearm nor any
ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible
from the passenger compartment. In the case the vehicle does not have a
compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or
ammunition shall be contained in a locked compartment other than the
glove compartment or console.

Question is, where is a locked compartment if the bike doesn't have hard bags?

Rocksolid

JimmyAcorn

01-24-2008, 12:36 PM

A locked metal box strapped anywhere on your motorcycle would be my guess.

Peace

Maico Shark

01-24-2008, 09:59 PM

It's gonna get even worse is my guess. But who cares? I carried a colt jr which is a little auto .22 short a bit bigger than a zippo in my hip pocket behind my wallet for 20 years. Was never searched. Gave it to my daughter ten years ago.

Uesque

01-25-2008, 11:22 AM

http://www.gunnersecurity.com/holster-leather_wallet.htm

TFee3

01-26-2008, 10:54 PM

Roadrash, I have a South Dakota Concealed Carry permit, and I've never been hassled, not to say that I won't some day. If some SD trooper told me that it was illegal for me to carry, I'd look him in the eye and tell him BS! There is a blog on the Sioux Falls Argus Leader web page now where a Sioux Falls cop beat the living sh-- out of a kid, costing him $15,000 in hospital bills. He had a rap sheet, but that was no excuse. The kid went to the state attorney general and filed a complaint, and nothing was done. Then, he went to the FBI, and they told him it would take months to get the paperwork reviewed. They gave the kid nothing but the runaround. When I was a kid, the town drunk was the city police officer. He gave all the kids in town a rough time whether they were doing anything wrong or not. The county sherrif was my dad's second cousin, and he was just as big an a--h---. A kid ran a stoplight one afternoon and totalled our car three years ago. The police officer who responded gave me sh-- because he could be home with the family. It was after his get-off time. I have ZERO respect for South Dakota law enforcement.

TFee3

01-26-2008, 11:05 PM

Point - I hope we never have handguns banned as they did in your country. I read the statistics on crime in Canada, and within a few short months, in-home personal assault crime increased 69% after the law was passed, because criminals knew homeowners weren't armed anymore. A Missouri law was recently passed that a man not only has a right to protect his family, but also his possessions. My house is protected by Glock. If I catch someone stealing something of mine, I'm going to blow his ass away!

I belonged to a camping forum for a long time. I read there that people going to Alaska through Canada were afforded the courtesy of transporting their weapons through Canada in that situation. The people told border security that they had their weapons for protection against animals, and security let them through without confiscating their weapons. The people also said that if they said they were protecting themselves from other people, they lost their guns immediately.

Roadrash

01-27-2008, 11:42 AM

TFee3
Yeah, SoDak LEO's are generally some of the worst I've ever run across. There are a few out there who are decent, actually try to help people and will give a guy a break if they can. It's a sad statement though that they are so few and far between that they stick out in a person's memory!
Respects,
Roadrash

point

01-27-2008, 11:06 PM

Actually TFEE, the crime stats for both our countries have been on the decline for years.In Canada in 2005 there were 663 murders for a total population of 35,000,000. Of those, only 220 gun related deaths. If you break down the demographics, a middle class average guy that dosn't hang out with lowlifes as a hobby, stands a snowballs chance in hell of ever getting murdered. This is not a dangerous place. We are too fn cold to go out and kill somebody. We leave our fighting for the hockey rinks.
We have not had the right to carry for more than 1/2 a century and have had gun restrictions of some form for even longer. We have also never had a "gun" problem.
I have owned guns since I was 14 (I'm 56). I've had lots of pistols, rifles etc.
I got rid of my pistols because the permits are a pain in the ass. My 27 year old daughter just bought her first rifle. A Russian semi-auto 7.62mm assault rifle. So It's really not that bad. The thing is that it takes months to get a permit. The media would love to have us all belive that the world is a dangerous place and the trueth is, it is no worse now than it has ever been.
I love debates.

BH121869

01-27-2008, 11:44 PM

I carry as often as I can and it is getting harder. At work now they will fire us if we even take a gun in the car on the property. That sucks.
As for using one, I would only use it to protect life. My life or my family, or anyone or even my dogs but not property or even my bikes.
I have shot at people who were riding around shooting out windows in cars and homes, my home was the last, and they have not been back in the past three years but were never cought. One lady was hit in the neck by a BB that had to be removed in the hospital. But to kill for any other reason, I would not do.

TFee3

01-28-2008, 12:39 AM

Point - then someone down here is lying to the American public. Those statistics were brought out during the time when anti-gun people were going nuts a few years ago and wanted to ban everything but a pea shooter. I'm sure the uproar was heard way up in your part of the woods! Here is an email message I just received from a friend. I have no idea where the statistics came from. I'm merely passing them on to you:

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
------------------------------
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of
13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
------------------------------
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
-----------------------------
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
------------------------------
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender (involuntary buy back) 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in: List of 7 items:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent.
Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent.
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!
In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their guns!
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

The next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

With guns, we are 'citizens'.

Without them, we are 'subjects'.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

If you value your freedom, Please spread this anti-gun control message to all of your friends.

People ask me why I carry a 45 caliber. My answer . . 'Because they don't make a 46 calibers!

JimmyAcorn

01-28-2008, 11:19 AM

Yo Teeeeee

I'm sorry but the statistics you posted aren't true. They circle the truth but they are not true. It's one of those internet email things that someone puts together. It's been going around for quite awhile.

Germany never imposed gun control (ban).
Cambodia certainly never had a ban on gun ownership.
The Aussie stats have no basis in reality.

Sure does make for a good argument if it were true.

Oh, and Mr. Rogers was NOT a Marine Sniper either. That's another email that's been going around.

Peace

point

01-28-2008, 12:20 PM

Hi TFEE
Jimmy got to you befor I did. And he is right.
Are you being lied to? You bet. The web is a great tool but be sure to look for ALL the data. Never just look for the data that supports your own view. Sometimes a guy has to eat crow pie when he sees all the real imformation.
Does the American media lie? You bet.
I don't like the Canadian gun control laws. I feel they are way too restrictive but I lived in the U.S. for a few years and find your lack of controls way too far on the other side. The U.S. seems to be an anomaly when it comes to the times. Your history seems to depict a country where if you had a problem, you grabbed a gun and killed the bugger that pissed you off. In Canada, even in the 1800s, we just called the RCMP and let them deal with it. Less lead in the air to pollute the enviroment.
Let me play the Devils Advocate for gun control here. The history of the arms race seems to be based on the idea that the bigger and more deadly the stick I carry, the less likely that anyone will fight me. Nobel invented dynamite and people figured that when used as weapon, it would scare people from war. When the machine gun was perfected, it was thought that they were so destructive that no-one would want to go to war. When the A bomb was developed, it was belived that with the biggest stick of all, no-one would ever go to war against the guy that had it.
Did that work????
I don't think so.
You carry a pistol, so your opponent carries an Uzi. And the spiral spins out of control.
It's sad but yes we need armies and weapons becaus there are bad guys out there. But, and there is always a but, everybody carrying a gun dosn't make life any safer. It just puts more lead in the air. I have no easy answers for you. Throwing away your gun isn't going to solve it any more than getting a bigger gun will.
I was listening to one of your Senators making a speech in the late 80s. He was saying how proud he was that he lived in a country where his wife could have an assault rifle do defend her life. Okay. I am proud that I live in a country where I don't need an assault rifle to defend myself. Different view isn't it.

Have a good ride.

JimmyAcorn

01-28-2008, 02:16 PM

Very interesting post. Regarding the "history of the arms race"; I'm not so sure anyone was racing anywhere until the Japanese attacked. Though "bigger is better" is certainly valid in and of itself. I mean, I'm pretty much dead set against smackin' some 300 lb biker for no good reason. :rolleyes:

Prior to that no one was racing for weapons to keep Hitler in check. In many ways (not just weapons) WWII changed (rushed to change) every aspect of the so-called civilized world. I better stop cause this is just too cool a subject matter for this thread. Maybe go to the IT thread and begin anew, eh?

everybody carrying a gun dosn't make life any safer.

I believe that statement is basically true but I do know of instances where people's lives were saved by a gun-toting, law abiding citizen. The world gets more dangerous everyday. It gets more dangerous whether I carry a gun or not. I'd rather have that equalizer.

I was listening to one of your Senators making a speech in the late 80s. He was saying how proud he was that he lived in a country where his wife could have an assault rifle do defend her life

A very poor choice of words to defend the Constitution I'd say but some folks (and how they become Senators is beyond me) don't really get it. An "assault rifle" indeed.

I am proud that I live in a country where I don't need an assault rifle to defend myself

I doubt whether anyone needs an assault rifle throughout the course of his or her life but don't be so quick to suggest you live in Utopia. The fact remains that should the situation require it, you'd be hard-pressed in being able to defend your family against armed intruders.

Throwing away your gun isn't going to solve it any more than getting a bigger gun will

And there goes the nature of the beast!!!

Peace

BH121869

01-28-2008, 02:40 PM

I have family in England in several small towns that wished they had the rights we have in America. They are taxed to death and do not even have the right to protect themselves in their own homes. Like us their country is changing with many other types moving in. The crime there has gone up since the gun control laws went into effect. The news and government do not like to admit they screwed up but they did. Italy and France are having this same issue with crime and new comers to their country. Canada is a safe place to live and they are one of the places where crime so far is not rising I guess.
We still have our rights here unlike Europe.

Roadrash

01-28-2008, 05:19 PM

I would rather be armed every day of my life and never need it than to need it the day I was unarmed.
Respects,
Roadrash

TFee3

01-28-2008, 05:21 PM

Hey guys, I don't put a whole lot of stock in anything I read in my email. I know that 90%+ is pretty much bull. I just copied that in for conversation sake. Unless I got into that country's federal statistics written by the proper authorities, I won't believe it. I'm too lazy to do that, so I don't pay too much attention. It does, however, make for some interesting reading.

Roadrash, guns are like parachutes. If you don't have one when you need it, you probably won't ever need it again.

point

01-28-2008, 09:51 PM

History would be a great debate for anybody up for it but probably not in line with this forum.
No, Canada is far from Utopian. If you ever find that place let me know. We have gun control up here and we have a lot of guns. We just don't carry.
Every farmer, trapper, native, hunter and sport shooter owns at least one gun. Our restrictions are basically this. You can't have a criminal record and you must pass a stringent safety course to own a gun. once you apply for a permit, they check to make sure that you didn't threaten your x wife yesterday, then you can have a gun.
My original point was that when a guy comes up to Canada with a pistol in his pocket, he has to leave it at the border. The fact is that you don't need it.
I used to carry a rifle for years when I worked in the bush on the oil rigs and went backpacking. I finally left it at home as just so much useless weight to carry. For bears I carry a can of bear spray. Much lighter.

TFee3

01-29-2008, 09:15 AM

Point, heck, if we could find a utopian place, we'd all live there, and we wouldn't like it. It would be too crowded! :) And you know what? I'll bet someone would have a gun and try to take something away from someone! :D

I'm wondering, have you ever had occasion to use your bear spray? If so, how effective is it? I've read many stories about guys carrying handguns and shooting the bear in the head, only to have it bounce off his scull and make him even angrier. I have a measley 9-mil, so I would have to shoot him in the eye with it to kill him.

point

01-29-2008, 10:27 AM

True about Utopia. It's always that place just over the horizon and we keep looking.
Bear spray is very effective. You stand as good a chance against a bear with it as a gun. I've never used it but I did scare off a huge black bear with a bear banger once. This old bear was sitting right on the trail and wouldn't budge. I hollered at him, blew a whistle and threw a few rocks into the bushes beside him. He just sat there and gave me a "screw you " look. Since bangers are a whole lot cheaper than using up your spray, I fired one at him. These things are as fn loud as a 12 bore when they go off. He ran away so fast and was pissing himself as he was going.
So this stuff only weighs a few ounces and is a whole lot less hassle than a gun. You will hear as many stories about spray failing to stop a bear as you will of bullets just riling then a bit.

Uesque

01-29-2008, 11:08 AM

Some interesting articles from the London Times:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article3248155.ece

Over 10,000 gun crimes a year in a country where guns are effectively outlawed. How does that happen?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2328368.ece

Gun related injuries and deaths have increased 4X since 1998, again in a country that has eliminated all guns. And these links are from the London Times, not some firearm rights group.

TFee3

01-29-2008, 01:33 PM

Boy, those two articles sure do contradict each other, don't they! I have a tendancy to believe the latter, to be honest. The first one just doesn't seem logical to me. If people can't defend themselves, it stands to reason that criminals will go wild. I remember reading a few years ago that when Texas signed the Concealed Carry law, crimes against individuals dropped over 30% within, I think, if I recall properly, 30 days. It's sad that the public in any country has to arm itself against crime, but that's the world we live in.

I think Canada has the best approach, make anyone who wants a cc permit take a gun course. If the course is geared correctly, it might prevent the trigger happy slob who thinks he's king kong just because he wears a weapon.

point

01-29-2008, 02:21 PM

The thing about newspapers is that they tell you what they would like you to belive (governments are the same). News papers used to be called "Merchants of Chaos". They will publish the gore and stick it in your face so you belive it is happening everywhere. Who do you belive? You have to look hard and fully investigate all sources of data to find the trueth.
Crime stats should be looked at as a trend. They will vary year to year but what is the trend.
As to gun controll, it has its pros and cons. We know that making guns illegal just does not stop criminals from having guns. It makes it a bit more difficult to get them but not impossible. For my daughter to get her first gun it took a few months. She had to take a course and then they checked her out to make sure she wasn't getting one to take out her x boyfreind. They called my wife, her boss and 2 of her references. Pretty thourough Of course being the government they take their time. It's all ponderous and takes time. I may not like it but at this time I am still allowed to own a gun.
It is of interest that the gun crimes we have up here are USUALLY criminals against criminals. That's okay by me.

point

01-29-2008, 03:57 PM

TFEE, if a cc permit is a carry permit, then we don't have them. You cannot get a permit to carry here in Canada. Only in extraordinary circumstances.
You can own a pistol but you need a permit that specifficaly allows you to transport it in a locked containor. I think that that is f/n stupid but there it is.
Rifles and shotguns however are fine to drag around. They must be unloaded and you can no longer have them in a gun rack in the window of your pickup. That's how I used to transport mine but I see the point. Too easy to steal.

Roadrash

01-29-2008, 06:03 PM

I left Texas right before they passed their Concealed Carry Permit. When I was living there, it was not terribly uncommon to see people wearing a pistol on their hip, "Cowboy-style" so-to-speak. Sometimes, I guess that could be a good crime deterent!
I also read about the drop in violent crimes after they gave back their citizens' rights. The thing I found interesting was that the statistic which had the largest change was the drop in rapes!
The same thing happened when they erected the "wall" along the southern border of El Paso. Wierd, huh?
Respects,
Roadrash

TFee3

01-29-2008, 07:10 PM

Point - it does mean concealed carry, and I didn't think you had them in Canada. But, what I read said nobody could even own a gun, so I was totally misinformed!

Roadrash - rape incidents dropping really surprised me, too. I guess the bad guys think the girl is going to be armed. My wife has a concealed carry permit, because if my pistol were in the glove compartment, she could get arrested for having it if I weren't in the truck with her. But, she doesn't know squat about how to fire it. Crazy, huh!

point

01-29-2008, 07:37 PM

Never expect the law to make sence. I had heard that at one time you could carry a side arm in Texas but you couldn't carry wirecutters. That was some time ago. And how the hell do they wrap logic around the idea that you can carry a gun but can't have it in your glovebox. Sounds like your lawmakers went to the same school as ours.

Roadrash

01-30-2008, 08:57 PM

Yeah, there's a lotta wierd laws out there. In South Dakota the law says that your motorcycle must have "a horn and a working speedometer, headlight and tail-light." So-o-o-o-o-o,... the horn appearantly doesn't have to work, it just has to be there.
Respects,
Roadrash

C50-Blvd.

02-05-2008, 01:29 PM

I tried not to wade into this discussion because I always become irrate when I talk about this subject. I'm very much pro-gun. Nobody can tell me that a law abiding, properly trained gun owner does not make a more difficult target for the criminal than an unarmed person. Bottom line is if someone dirt bag is intent on doing harm he or she will find a way, gun restrictions or not. The only people being penalized are the law abiding. No worthwhile government should ever fear nor prohibit the law abiding citizen from gun ownership.

JimmyAcorn

02-05-2008, 01:49 PM

Anti gun ordinances only accomplish two things:

You become an innocent victim or felon.

Peace

TFee3

02-05-2008, 02:23 PM

Not sure I mentioned this before, but I told my friends at age 18 (1958) that one day, we would all be wearing "hoglegs" as in the old west. It's pretty much come to that now, which is pretty sad, to be honest about it. My concealed carry permit from South Dakota has expired, and I'm applying for one in Missouri.

I'm like C50, I get irritated in a hurry when I encounter an anti-gun person. This is all supposition, of course, but suppose someone in that shopping center in Omaha would have been armed that day and fired even one shot at that kid who killed six people. I wonder, would he have continued shooting, or would he have ducked and ran. I don't know, but it would have been worth a try. Also, what if the man in Customer Service had been armed and fired back at that kid? Do you suppose the man would have saved some lives? We'll never know, because nobody was armed! The thing about shopping centers that really amazes me is that their security people in most shopping centers aren't even armed!!!! How stupid is that! What are they going to do, throw their radios at the perpetrator?

C50 did make a good point - trained! If all people who want a concealed carry permit want one, then they should be trained. I carried a pistol for 26 years in the military as a loadmaster, and we had to have a refresher course every year. It won't hurt people to go through that once in their lives to get a permit.

LowRiderGhost

02-05-2008, 02:41 PM

Wow? Was just thinkin' the other day about the fact that after 18 years I still have as yet to be hassled by either the state, county, or city law enforcement here (in SD)! It's nothing short of amazing to me. Am I a trouble maker that should be? Heck no, I'm about as conservative as the next guy (at least 'Biker' wise! :rolleyes: ). Still, it never ever stopped em' before (especially in California). I dunno, maybe my silver gray beard now (and I do walk with a cane) has made a difference?! :D

The only time I ever really make contact with the Police here at all is when I go in to renew my Weapons Permit. Either that or if my old truck sits out front too long without being disturbed, I get a Red Warning sticker on it that says move it or lose it! :eek:

LRG

TFee3
Yeah, SoDak LEO's are generally some of the worst I've ever run across. There are a few out there who are decent, actually try to help people and will give a guy a break if they can. It's a sad statement though that they are so few and far between that they stick out in a person's memory!
Respects,
Roadrash

TFee3

02-05-2008, 03:07 PM

LRG, it might just be your beard. When I'm stopped, I immediately take off my helmet so they can see my bald head. I think it does actually help! I haven't been hassled in my old age in S.D.

point

02-05-2008, 04:31 PM

Well said TFEE. Trained is the word. I was a weapons technition in the army. I instructed sniper school while with the airborne and even trained civilian cops on military weapons. Guess what. I had to take refresher courses on the very same weapons I taught every year. May sound stupid but we NEVER had an accident. It was never assumed that you knew.
Gun control comes in all forms. As I said earlier, up here you can have a gun but you must be trained and not have a criminal record. As a law abiding citizen I find it all a pain in the ass but I still own a gun and can drag it out into the bush and shoot tin cans or deer (in season). Don't mix up gun control with the idea that you can't possess a weapon. Most states have some form of control even if it is only a 3 day "cooling off" period. Ever see that Simpsons episod where Homer goes to buy a gun and is told that he has to wait 30 days? He tells the sales guy "But I'm angry now"
That's gun control. If the only gun law you had was one that stated that "Convicted murderers cannot carry.) That would be gun control.
And so continues the debate.

TFee3

02-05-2008, 05:06 PM

Amen on "continues the bebate." Lots of people think they're dangerous, but with training, they're not. I would no more think of letting my wife shoot my Glock without teaching her than let her play in the traffic. I was married to a young hothead for a while, and one day, she came out with my Glock, pointed it at me, and said, "I'm going to kill you!" I casually pointed out that all she had to do was pull the trigger, because there was no safety one had to release. She became frightened, put the weapon down, and never pulled that dumb stunt again. It's all in education.

One thing I might add, if I ever have to pull that thing out from under my coat, I'm definitely going to pull the trigger. If I have no intention of using it, it's staying in its holster. People can see the hesitation in your eyes, and if you're not going to use it, pulling it out is the most dangerous thing you can do. It merely escalates the situation.

LowRiderGhost

02-05-2008, 05:50 PM

Yikes?! :eek: And to think I thought I had it rough with some of the past women I knew?! :confused: Guess now I should be grateful most of em' just took my money and NOT my life?! :rolleyes:

LRG :cool:

I was married to a young hothead for a while, and one day, she came out with my Glock, pointed it at me, and said, "I'm going to kill you!" I casually pointed out that all she had to do was pull the trigger, because there was no safety one had to release. She became frightened, put the weapon down, and never pulled that dumb stunt again.

TFee3

02-05-2008, 06:51 PM

All I can say is - beware of foreigner who want to come to America. They'll do anything!!!!

mc1400

02-09-2008, 02:22 AM

Don't know if this will help, but I just found a company that sells steel safes for motorcycles. They make a steel vault that holds handguns and locks down in the saddle bags of Harley Davidsons with hard bags. They also carry some other unique gun bags that can be used to lock a handgun down on a bike. One safe features a flexable stainless steel mesh which keeps the bag from being cut open, but keeps it locked down with a steel cable. The company is called corporate travel safety, in Los Angeles. Look in the firearm, motorcycle, and travel safe sections to see the different varations of mobile safes. Here is a jpg of the safe

clockdaddy

02-09-2008, 07:34 AM

Fortunately we have a concealed weapons permit in Kentucky. Before getting the permit it's required that you attend a certified safety course (which isn't cheap!) and your license is good for 5 years before renual.

Let's keep a few things in perspective...
Instead of looking at the "what if's" let's look at the "what is".
In Kentucky, as in many other states, gangs, drugs, and the economy has resulted in an increased amount of crime and in virtually every incident a gun or knife is involved. Just look at the hugh increase in bank robberies in the past few years!
It's really crazy when you go for a hamburger and someone comes in and starts shooting the place up. Look at the incidences at shopping malls, schools, and on the highways.
So far I haven't heard of a "good" person going out for a daily "shoot 'em up". Yes, guns are available virtually everywhere. I can go to county flea markets and buy a pistol, a rifle, and about anything else to kill animals or a man. If they weren't available like this, the criminals would still get them somewhere.
I don't advocate looking for trouble and coming in like John Wayne with guns blazing. If a situation arises where my life or that of a loved one is in danger, I'd at least like to have a chance to protect ourselves.
I've carried concealed weapons for decades and never had to pull or use my weapon (If I have to pull it, it will be used!). In our state, since the incession of the concealed to carry permit law, there has not been a single incident of a person with a permit using their weapon for criminal purposes. There have been situations that a person with a permit has stopped criminals in the process of their crimes. In all cases where this has happened, there was a serious threat of bodily harm present.
One city, I think in Illinois, passed an ordinance that everyone in town MUST possess a firearm. That's not to say that everyone DOES have a firearm, but crime has taken a big drop since the criminals have no idea who can or will shoot back!
I don't believe that anyone should just pull their weapon at any sign of discord and become Marshall Dillon. In many areas, the gangs and druggies are so bad that trouble will find you! Car jacking, road rage, the list of everyday happenings is unreal!
Now we're running into the problem that firearms are not allowed in many public places. When I was in school (eons ago) our shot guns and rifles were hung on the gun rack in our pickup. They were never bothered by anyone and we'd go hunting after school. Now, that's a felony!
How many lives could have been saved if one teacher, janitor, or visitor had had a weapon and been trained to use it in even one of the school slaughters we're had? Yet, an honest, lawabiding citizen has limits put on them that the crazies don't have.
Would I prefer to never need or to carry a weapon? You betcha! Unfortunately we aren't going to change our part of the world overnight. Until we do, you can bet, if I have my pants on...I'm carrying.

CD

TFee3

02-09-2008, 10:06 AM

I just reread my crack about foreign women. I'm not sure I should have said that, because there are lots of foreign women who are kind, gentle, and loving when married to an American. I just happened to have married one who wasn't. If I offended anyone, PLEASE accept my apology!

I have to agree with CD on everything he's said. Also, I don't buy a lock for my Glock, because if it's locked up, it does me no good. If I have to lock it up, I might as well leave it at home. I prefer to take my chances getting arrested, because I would rather be a live convict than a dead law abiding citizen!

LowRiderGhost

02-10-2008, 04:48 PM

Afternoon TFee3,

Well, don't put yourself TOTALLY down Partner, ok?! I didn't respond because at least for my personal experience, you were spot on (aka sometimes silence can speak volumes....). But at just about 51 now and the lousy MS doing it's nasty bit of work, I have no interest in starting from scratch yet again. Even my wife herself concedes to the fact it IS a part of the British Mentality: perceiving themselves to be BETTER then anyone else out there! Definitely, there is NO ‘quiet desperation’ in this house. So I’m cool, and so’s everything else far as I’m concerned. I will reside myself everyday I have left on this earth to trying to keep my lady happy, or at least in a tolerant mood. In between I try to keep my thoughts on Motorcycles…. at least for myself which has been my personal greatest strength in this life. Nuff’ said? ;-)

And spot on as well that IF you were to be in total compliance with all the rules and regulations of the land, a firearm then becomes a worthless piece of metal – why even bother bringing it along at all?! These days I bring along a Nickel Plated .380 Semi-Automatic when I go out on the sled – hardly deemed Dirty Harry country even remotely. But I know I sure as heck don’t want to be blasted by anyone OR by anything – and I’m counting on (and hoping) the “crim’s” out there will feel the same?! Thus far, this has proven true…..

LRG

I just reread my crack about foreign women. I'm not sure I should have said that, because there are lots of foreign women who are kind, gentle, and loving when married to an American. I just happened to have married one who wasn't. If I offended anyone, PLEASE accept my apology!

I have to agree with CD on everything he's said. Also, I don't buy a lock for my Glock, because if it's locked up, it does me no good. If I have to lock it up, I might as well leave it at home. I prefer to take my chances getting arrested, because I would rather be a live convict than a dead law abiding citizen!

Roadrash

02-11-2008, 05:19 PM

Wow! I thought I was the only one with a crazy foreign chick for an Ol' Lady who had pulled a gun on me! Small world, huh?
The ideas about training and not pullin' it out unless yer pullin' the trigger are very damn true. When I lived in Clarksville, Tn. a neighbor of ours came home one evening to find his Ol' Lady in bed with another guy. He grabbed his .357 off the dresser and began yelling at them and waving the gun around. Somehow, his OL got out of bed, got the gun away from him and shot him six times in the chest, killing him (obviously).
Respects,
Roadrash

TFee3

02-12-2008, 10:17 AM

Roadrash, I've always said that if I find you in bed with my wife, you MIGHT survive, but if I catch you messing with my kids, you're dead! Of course, they're in their 30's now, but that still doesn't matter. Same deal applies, but now, it extends to my grandkids! :)

It is sad that one never knows who's on the edge anymore and will do something stupid. We just had one guy in a nearby city go berzerk by walking into a council meeting and shooting the mayor, one other member, and two policemen. :(

Roadrash

02-12-2008, 06:24 PM

JimmyAcorn

02-12-2008, 07:29 PM

I locked and loaded on an ex OL once and handed her my 9 and told her to fkn kill me now; I'm tired of the torture. She told me I was crazy, ran out of the house and filed for divorce the next day. Gee, how simple was that. And here I wasted 10 years. But I'm probably lucky she didn't shoot me cause she would've missed killing me and I'd be ball-less or something like that.

Peace

Uesque

02-13-2008, 07:22 AM

Thanks again to the original poster for listing that link! I just went back to it and double checked a state that I'm planning on visiting. I had thought they had reciprocity, but I was wrong,... glad I re-checked!
Respects,
Roadrash

Always check with the state you're visiting directly, in case things have changed. WV just recently signed an agreement with PA, but not all the sites caught up right away.

Maico Shark

02-15-2008, 09:35 PM

Well another nut case walked into a college class & started blasting away and the usual suspects are all on their anti-gun wagon. If it would have been in Israel most of the students would have been carrying and he'd never have gotten so many shots off. It's a completely unarmed group that's the easiest target for these wack jobs. Could you imagine him walking into the police barracks and opening up. It's the gun laws we have already that perpetuates this crap.

clockdaddy

02-15-2008, 11:40 PM

And once again all of us law abiding citizen will be taken to task about the existence of firearms in our society.
You're right Maico, if we didn't have the pacifistic activist pushing their agenda so successfully, some of the fellas would have had their own guns in their trucks and a few would be walking around with Bowie knives.
Why have we let the Hanoi Janes of our country ruin our way of life.
Yes, radical incidences did happen before, but we depended on ourselves to stop them and let the police and courts handle the criminal from there.
The peace activists of the 60's and 70's had nothing to support themselves when we all came home from Nam. They had to seek out causes to be fighting for in order to support themselves and their radical agenda (Thanks ACLU!).
We allowed it to happen, and now we're paying the price.
Enjoy the new world order....

CD

webhustler

02-24-2008, 10:55 PM

I remember when the police in California got a little scared of the Hell's Angele in LA and ran to State to get some fast legislation passed. When California first banned concealed carry, all of the bikers began to strap shotguns onto their bikes like a coboy in the westerns. It kind of funny, the guns were there the whole time, but when they decided to ban concealed carry at the time, It gave HA a great way to "comply" with the law, doing a better job of indimidation than ever.

Maico Shark

02-28-2008, 11:40 PM

You know Hustler that's really not a bad idea. I mean if people quit concealing their weapon wheres the violation?

TFee3

02-29-2008, 08:30 AM

I have to agree, Maico. Back in the 50's, South Dakota had a law that you could carry your weapon anywhere you wanted, but it had to be out in the open. Us kids used to go hunting down at the river and wore our pistols down town all the time. Nobody thought anything of it then. If people wore them out in the open, my feeling is that a robber or gunman would look around, see all the guns, and think twice before he committed a crime.

Uesque

02-29-2008, 09:57 AM

In PA I believe open carry is legal everywhere except first class cities, and the only one of those is Philly. The caveat is that if anyone sees it and panics, they can get you for disturbing the peace or causing a disturbance or some such thing.

TFee3

02-29-2008, 10:11 AM

Oh! Never thought of that, and there are many people who panick when they see any type of firearm!! :(

Jax

03-03-2008, 11:01 AM

Oh! Never thought of that, and there are many people who panick when they see any type of firearm!! :(

Those are the ones you pistol whip:p :p

Just kidding...:cool:

Roadrash

03-04-2008, 02:18 PM

I've also noticed that if you walk into a bar dressed in leather, they will often ask you to remove any visible knives you have on your person. If, however, you are dressed in cammo and smell of deer urine, no one bats an eye.
Respects,
Roadrash

Roadrash

03-04-2008, 02:19 PM

There is a leather dealer that hits almost all of the bigger biker events called "BIG B'S LEATHERS". He recently started carrying a couple of concealment vests.
Respects,
Roadrash

point

03-04-2008, 07:24 PM

One of my daughters boyfreinds (about 20) came over once all dressed in cammies. I asked him who he was hiding from. He didn't get it.
I never thought the crap I wore in the army would become a fashion statement.

clockdaddy

03-04-2008, 07:28 PM

Right point...

Wannabes without the guts.

CD

BH121869

03-12-2008, 09:31 PM

I've been around guns all my life and have studied most guns especially concerning their safety. I'm also a mechanical engineer and involved with validating equipment including their safety issues. The only gun I feel unsafe around is not the Sat night specials but any Glock handgun.
If you own one or are thinking of owning one read the articles on the web first. The #1 gun cops shoot themselves with? Glock.
The #1 accidental discharged handgun for the last ten years? Glock
Their only safety's are actuated by a small trigger inside the main trigger.
If the heavy NY trigger of eight pounds is purchased they are much safer and if carried without a round in the chamber they are safe.
If you care about safety read about this issue and be careful around these guns. I've owned one and do not want this gun around me or my home.
They require more training than most handguns in order to be safe.
65% of all police carry one of these, these days. This does not make them a safe gun.

TFee3

03-13-2008, 05:51 PM

BH, I carried a Glock all through the first Gulf War, and the other guys had 6-shot revolvers. I was the only one with enough fire power to do any good. Also, there are times when one doesn't have time to chamber a round, and I wouldn't carry mine without one chambered. The Treasury Department bought 2,000 of them when they were first produced because they're accurate and hardly ever jam. One shooting range owner said he bought two of them to try, and they each had 250,000 rounds through them with no jams at all. I have mine for fast acting (no ****ing), accuracy, and reliability. I wouldn't want any other type weapon for personal defense. If I take my weapon out, I fully intend to fire it. Otherwise, I keep it in the holster where it's safe. I might add that the only time I've ever shot a hole accidentally in anything was with a double action 5-shot featherweight. While you're chambering a round, I'll be pumping two in your chest.

subwofer2

03-24-2008, 11:09 PM

If you have a CCW and travel a lot you will love this site. It has a great tool for planning which states recognize your permit and which states do not.

http://carryconcealed.net/index.php

BH121869

03-25-2008, 01:29 PM

The laws keep changeing and it is good to keep up with them as you say.

BH121869

03-27-2008, 10:31 AM

Florida is trying to get a new law passed that would make it legal to keep a gun in your car, locked up, at work. Right now many companies have it in their handbooks that you can not bring a gun on the property. Mine does and has fired one guy. It has made it through the house but we will see what happens next. It has failed to go through twice before. Many of us do it anyway but this would be a good law to back us up.

jag1

03-27-2008, 05:52 PM

here in Arkansas we honor all, and all bordering states honor ours. not up on all the states .

I usally hand the cop my DL & CCP,just to be safe.

emd001

03-28-2008, 12:47 AM

yessir, i have heard too many stories of people getting in trouble in texas becuase during a traffic stop they don't produce their CHL and declare they are carrying before handing the cop their drivers license, so i always do that first, then carry on with the traffic stop after the officer has taken my weapon, cleared it and put in on the roof of the truck or his hood if im on the bike.

03-29-2008, 11:40 PM

First words out of my mouth when pulled over "Officer, I have a CHL and I am armed. Can I show you my CHL?" And I never go grabbing for anything without them telling me too.

I was carrying on road trips before we had the CHL program here. But we have always had a "travel-carry" law where you can be armed with a concealed handgun if you are traveling (basically considered at least traveling through 2 counties and on to a 3rd, minimum, unless you like prison). You must show proof you are traveling. Receipts, travel plans, etc. But anyone in Texas (no need to be a Texas citizen) old enough to own a handgun can do it, CHL or not. MANY states have similar laws, but not ALL, so be sure before you do.

axmurderer

04-07-2008, 08:42 PM

I have a carry permit myself - I carry a Keltec P3AT because of it's small size - it's a .380 cal...

I carry everywhere I legally can. I am strongly for the right of decent law-abiding citizens to carry. My permit from MS is honored in quite a few states, which is nice.

I grew up hunting and had firearms safety drilled into my skull. I rarely hunt anymore but I still own a couple firearms. My home defense gun is a Bushmaster Carbon-14 in 5.56 with a mounted weapons light and 80 rounds on-board ammo in 3 mags. My man-cave has a dedicated S&W .44 magnum as it's mascot. My wife has a Lady-Smith in .38 special. We have no kids, and live in the country. I just don't ever intend to be a "victim"... :D

TFee3

04-07-2008, 11:37 PM

axmurderer - if you have a digital camera and can take a picture of it, I'd sure appreciate it. Lots of guys on another forum carry the same weapon. I'm curious to see what it looks like.

04-07-2008, 11:42 PM

axmurderer - if you have a digital camera and can take a picture of it, I'd sure appreciate it. Lots of guys on another forum carry the same weapon. I'm curious to see what it looks like.Google is your friend. :D

axmurderer

04-08-2008, 10:23 AM

Google is your friend. :D

Yep, thats it!! Thanks Si!

I've found it to be quite reliable and surprisingly accurate for it's size. I've put in a few hours of range-time with it and I think I can trust it to perform if I ever need it. My brother has a permit as well and carries one too.

BH121869

04-10-2008, 09:09 PM

I'm amazed it did pass but soon we can carry again to work in Florida. No private Co or parking lot can stop you from carrying a gun again as it should be.

esspee51

04-11-2008, 01:44 PM

Most if not all gun control is on hand guns. i'll take a 12 guage to a 9mm any day. My wife can protect herself and doesn't even to aim.

TFee3

04-11-2008, 02:17 PM

During World War II, the Germans went to the Geneva Convention and wanted 12-gauge Winchester 97's outlawed on the field of battle. American G.I.'s were using them to clean out trenches, very effective. But, you can't get a 12-gauge in your pocket.

esspee51

04-11-2008, 03:04 PM

Exactly

BH121869

04-11-2008, 03:58 PM

Even with a sawed off shot gun 18" lets say, it takes some practice to hit anything. I've seen the cops training and get a kick out of how many can't even come close from the hip. In a house, loaded with birdshot they still go through walls and they make such a mess and won't fit my bags or bike.

cecilbdml

06-12-2008, 08:30 PM

What's really sad here, is I'm reading all these stories of folks being disarmed by cops at traffic stops. None of you were accused of committing any crime, yet you were disarmed.

That's bloody sad.

First of all, something to consider...HAVING A GUN SHOULD NOT BE A CRIME. Not in this country of all countries. Second of all, if you're not pointing it at anyone, WHAT FRIKKIN' BUSINESS IS IT OF THEIRS WHAT KIND YOU HAVE?!

Not that I'm very pro-2nd Amendment or anything...:sarcasm:

primalmu

06-12-2008, 08:58 PM

Here is a nice quotation from Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance that I feel is very applicable to the issue of gun control.

"But to tear down a factory or to revolt against a government or to avoid repair of a motorcycle because it is a system is to attack effects rather than causes; and as long as the attack is upon effects only, no change is possible."

rocksolid

06-12-2008, 09:05 PM

If not effects, what do you feel is the cause?

primalmu

06-12-2008, 10:34 PM

The cause depends on the situation. For instance, in, lets say, LA, gun violence can be mainly attributed to gang violence and drugs. Admittedly, both problems would be difficult to treat (well, gang violence anyway... the drug problem could be easily solved by legalizing many drugs [following the template set by the Netherlands]). As a side note, California is unique in that it has the strictest gun controls, yet I would dare say they have by far the greatest amount of gun violence of all states.

Now, here in WV, we RARELY hear about gun violence. Whether its the low population density or the fact that our culture is more in tune to guns (hunting and other outdoorsy activities), I don't know. However, the last time I heard of an accident involving guns that didn't occur in the west end of one of our larger cities (likely drug related -- see above) was when a young guy accidentally shot himself in the face while cleaning his revolver. In this case, the cause is clearly lack of gun safety education/common sense.

There are several different things (causes) that could result in gun violence (effects). However, one sure thing about gun legislation is that the only people that would be willing to obey such legislation are by and large the least likely to commit gun violence. Its the CRIMINALS that create crime, not law-abiding citizens. Do you know why Switzerland was never invaded by Germany in WWII? Because the Germans knew that every house had a gun (usually several) and that every adult male was trained to use it.

rocksolid

06-13-2008, 01:24 AM

While I agree the cause of gun violence is much as you suggested, I don't believe this is the motivation for police to "relieve" citizens of their arms. In this case, I feel it's a misplaced attitude of power. I was talking with a fellow biker friend who had his folding knife confiscated without cause at a traffic stop. He went to the station to get it back and was told by the Chief that it was destroyed. When asked why, he said that "they would feel bad if he committed a crime with it", so to protect the public, they confiscate and destroy weapons. He told my friend to "take me to court"! The rest of what I have to say is not for public forum, but it's getting bad.
Rocksolid

PerrySB

06-13-2008, 10:22 AM

As for California, carry permits from other states are not recognized. You can find the law is covered under PC Sections 12025-12031. If you are caught carrying here your weapon will be confiscated and you will be cited. However it is a misdemeanor on the first offense, second offense becomes a felony.

What bothers me about our laws here is the average law abiding citizen had no way of defending themselves against a violent attack. I can only speak for myself because there are mixed attitudes about this. However I have no fear of a good citizen carrying a weapon. The criminal element in our state doesn’t care what the law is, and many times they have more fire power than we do.

The second amendment is constantly challenged by the liberals that think all guns should be outlawed. However if you have a firearm that is unloaded it is useless, it won’t even make a good club.

I have a few times overlooked the fact that a citizen was carrying but that is not the rule of thumb, some officers will enforce these laws to the letter. I suppose each case is different. I’m a true believer that guns don’t kill people, people kill people.

aaronrkelly

06-25-2008, 05:08 AM

PerrySB

06-25-2008, 09:54 AM

I’ve carried a Glock for several years now and I haven’t managed to shoot myself yet. The weapon has always performed the way it should. I have the standard trigger pull on it and I have found no problem with it, I certainly wouldn’t want to increase the trigger pull. I have had to pull the weapon several times and have never had a problem with accidental discharge. For a cop not to have a round chambered is a very foolish idea, it could mean the difference between life and death and I think that is a no brainer. Any weapon used inappropriately is going to be dangerous. The gang bangers have shot themselves or others accidentally with a variety of weapons. Just remember, “You can’t fix stupid”

BH121869

06-25-2008, 12:28 PM

I get that your not a fan of Glocks, thats apparent.

That aside....explain to me how a Glock is unsafe providing your smart enough to follow the generally accepted safety rules.

If your intelligent enough not to pull the trigger until you want the gun to fire....well, you arent going to have any problems. The only safety I rely on is the one between my ears.

Makes sense to me.
You are right in that if you can keep your finger off the trigger it is usually safe. Many a cop has said it couldn't happen to him till it did go off.
With a heavy trigger they are as safe as a revolver but many add the light trigger to try to get more accuracy. With a light trigger they are like leaving a revolver with the hammer cocked ready to go off. I carry a Para LDA .45that is safe to carry loaded. It has a grip safety, thumb safety, firing pin block. Glocks have been known to blow up, the Kaboom issue, you can read about this, type kaboom, as they have unsupported chambers on most of them. Do you also walk around when hunting with the chamber loaded and the safety off on your 12 gage? No but you do with a Glock. There are safer guns and i use them. All have external safety's except the single action revolvers. Good luck and be safe.
My three best friends like Glocks and i've had one and I still feel the same about them. I gave mine away.

aaronrkelly

06-25-2008, 01:09 PM

Do you also walk around when hunting with the chamber loaded and the safety off on your 12 gage? No but you do with a Glock. There are safer guns and i use them. All have external safety's except the single action revolvers. Good luck and be safe.
My three best friends like Glocks and i've had one and I still feel the same about them. I gave mine away.

Show me a 12 gauge that has a firing pin block....I dont know of one. If you drop a loaded 12 ga the firing pin inertia can cause it to fire.

The firing pin on a Glock is blocked from any forward motion until the trigger is pulled.....there is a BIG difference between the two.

A fool with the safest gun is more dangerous then someone with safe handling skills and an unsafe gun.

BH121869

06-25-2008, 07:40 PM

Tell us why so many trained cops shoot themselves or others with a Glock? Not with a Sig or Colt or revolver of any kind.

primalmu

06-25-2008, 08:29 PM

Tell us why so many trained cops shoot themselves or others with a Glock? Not with a Sig or Colt or revolver of any kind.

Statistics and sources, please?

aaronrkelly

06-26-2008, 12:07 AM

Statistics and sources, please?

Thats what I was going to post....looks like you have me covered.

Tell us why so many trained cops shoot themselves or others with a Glock? Not with a Sig or Colt or revolver of any kind.

Im not making claims here....BH....you are.

But lets look at this.

Glocks are the MOST carried gun in law enforcement....right, that we can agree on. Ive read its something like 80% of the LE market.

Looks like by sheer volume alone if someone is going to be unsafe with a pistol that there are good chances of it happening with a Glock.

Remember the airplane pilot that shot a hole in his plane with an H&K. This is a so called "safe pistol" ..... so is the gun to blame. No, its not. The fool behind the gun is to blame. Show me one report from a reputable source of a Glock discharging due to something other then poor gun handling skills.

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

CHARLOTTE, N.C. – The pilot of a US Airways plane may have mishandled a firearm that went off in flight, piercing a hole in the cockpit wall, a federal air marshal said Tuesday.

"This is an extremely safe and reliable weapon," said Greg Alter of the Federal Air Marshal Service. "It's not going to discharge on its own, is the bottom line."

The pistol – a .40-calibre semiautomatic H&K USP – discharged Saturday aboard Flight 1536 from Denver to Charlotte, as the plane was approaching to land. Photos obtained by The Associated Press show a small entry hole in the lower side of the cockpit wall and a small exit hole on the exterior below the cockpit window.

BH121869

06-26-2008, 01:54 PM

Statistics and sources, please?

Gun safety

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html#which

http://www.stripersonline.com/surftalk/showthread.php?t=577593

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/other/Glock_vs_1911.htm
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-56616.html

http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/upgrade-faq.html
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/hhnj.html

The gun has no manual safety to prevent it from firing if the trigger is accidentally pulled. In fact, the gun?s safety features ? extremely effective in preventing discharges if the gun is dropped or hit ? automatically are turned off every time the trigger is depressed.
In addition, most Glocks have no indicator that shows the guns are loaded and no magazine safety to prevent them from firing when the ammunition clip is removed. And unlike many other guns, the Glock is always semicocked and ready to shoot. This inner tension in its firing mechanism increases the likelihood of discharge if the trigger is accidentally moved, some gun experts say.
"What you have is a gun that is almost too eager to fire," said Carter Lord, a national firearms and ballistics consultant. "I think it may be an appropriate weapon for highly trained paramilitary officers in a SWAT team, but not for most police officers and certainly not for civilians."
http://sleepless.blogs.com/george/2005/04/accidental_poli.html
http://www.lesjones.com/posts/000423.shtml
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/729088/posts
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/dimples.html
http://chris.cc/glock.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/dcpolice/deadlyforce/police4page3.htm

primalmu

06-26-2008, 04:15 PM

Those aren't statistics. None of them. They're merely articles that backup your opinion. Give me real statistics. Give me a study that shows that Glocks have caused X% more injuries due to accidental discharge than 1911's or some other standard service handgun.

Don't get me wrong. I actually can't stand Glocks. I hate the way they feel and they way they look. I'm a 1911 man through and through. But until I see hard statistical evidence over anecdotal reports I'm inclined to be skeptical.

TFee3

06-26-2008, 04:33 PM

I carried a Glock 19 all through the first Gulf War, and I loved it! The other guys had the old Smith & Wessen .38 revolvers, and I felt much safer. My idea is, and I'm certainly not knocking anyone, if you've grown up around weapons of any kind, you learn to respect them and what they can do, and brand or type doesn't make much diference. My brother's six kids, at the age of 6, was each given a Rugar Bearcat. What's more, every weapon he had, around 30, was loaded at all times. The kids nor their friends ever touched them without permission.

Another thing, if Glocks are so dangerous, then why did the government start arming their agents with them? One agent was shot to death while he was trying to reload all six shots in his revolver. Had he had a Glock with a clip, it would have taken a half second to reload, and he would have still been alive.

Just my thoughts.

Olivia Chillia

06-30-2008, 09:50 PM

The problem is not the Glock's design, but poor safety practices on the part of the people negligently discharging them.

People ought to choose the gun that is best for their needs and personal preferences. If they feel better about something with eight switches, buttons and levers, fine! But the idea that only highly trained law enforcement officers can handle a gun without external safeties is ridiculous in the extreme.

Guns are very simple tools. As long as gun operators follow four very simple rules, negligent discharges are impossible and accidental ones are exceedingly unlikely.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Keep your finger (and other stuff) away from the trigger until you're ready to shoot.
3. Never point the gun at anything you're not willing to destroy.
4. Know your target and your backstop.

If small children can master these rules, grown men and women should have no trouble with them.