Dragging the Rear Brake

[CaptCrashIdaho]

Need to make a U-turn? Having trouble? One of the best, slickest ways to make a U-turn easier is a to drag the rear brake a little. That's right, a gentle application of the rear while making a U-turn will stabilize the bike and help you get the job done.

Feathering the clutch (using the Friction Zone) will help keep the bike moving and up. Often you'll hear of this referred to as "Balancing the Clutch and Brake" which means you have putting power to the rear as you also gently apply the brake.

Some folks may mock or belittle you if they catch you dragging the rear in slow speed maneuvers; don't let that bother you. Would you rather botch the move or take a gentle ribbing for using a 'trick'?

ALL slow speed stuff can be done without dragging the rear but, in all honesty, when you get t in trouble doing a offset weave or a u-turn I (and LEOs too) use the rear brake to modulate speed and stabilize the bike.

As always, the farther you can turn your head and look to your new path of travel--THE BETTER. Turn your head Bunkie!

Be Safe!

[murphyshuman]

I actually find dragging the rear an asset for some corners at speed as well.

[rexmitchell]

But bikes are unstable by nature when braking, I'm not sure how using a second brake will help.....LOL

[RonK]

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I do my sharp slow turns with the friction and brake method, too, plus turning my head. I'm not so good at sliding off the seat, so I just get all my weight on the outside-of-the-turn cheek which lets me tilt the bike over to the inside further.

One big thing I find is that the actual speed is important. It may be different for each bike/rider combination, but for mine a speed of about 10-12 mph (although I'm not looking at the speedometer) seems to work well. Too slow seems to require more "balancing", while faster doesn't seem to allow enough time for the turn. I'm not sure if those are the correct reasons, but with that speed I can do about 15' u-turns on my cruiser.

RonK

[RonK]

...
Some folks may mock or belittle you if they catch you dragging the rear in slow speed maneuvers; don't let that bother you. Would you rather botch the move or take a gentle ribbing for using a 'trick'?
...


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Actually I never notice anybody commenting when I make my turns--although I usually feel pretty good. In fact, I'm the one who chuckles when some guys have to go around the building or duck walk around.

RonK

[markk53]

This is a great tip. We tell people who have problems doing the rider's test cornering to do exactly that.

Having ridden trials when I started riding, dragging a brake when doing slow maneuvers on a streetbike was a natural. When riding trials part of the technique is to have the driveline loaded a bit to enable quick acceleration without any delay or driveline shock, except on down hills when acceleration will not be needed.

The main difference with me is that I don't feather the clutch much, unless absolutely necessary. I do have two fingers or three on the clutch though in the event I do need to slip the clutch or stop.

The key is to understand WHY dragging the rear brake works. It works because without the brake the bike is free to lurch back and forth as driveline snatches at the low near idle speed of the engine. Driveline snatch is simply the bit of play in the power delivery from the engine through the clutch, transmission, and chain/shaft drive. That play is the clearance in the gears and play in the chain on chain drive bikes. No matter how many cylinders or how close the tolerances are, all engines will tend to want to lope a bit at or near idle (low rpm) under steady throttle (no acceleration) and that causes a constant on/off drive in the driveline which results in lurching action. Dragging the brake loads the driveline taking out the snatching action. It's like powerbraking with a car if one has ever done that. Taking out that snatching action makes the drive smooth when doing slow speed turns. Even when doing a turn from a stop or doing a tight 90 degree turn at an intersection.

[murphyshuman]

But bikes are unstable by nature when braking, I'm not sure how using a second brake will help.....LOL

Now Rex...we just got that one settled down! LOL:D

[beginner]

This is a great tip. We tell people who have problems doing the rider's test cornering to do exactly that.

Having ridden trials when I started riding, dragging a brake when doing slow maneuvers on a streetbike was a natural. When riding trials part of the technique is to have the driveline loaded a bit to enable quick acceleration without any delay or driveline shock, except on down hills when acceleration will not be needed.

The main difference with me is that I don't feather the clutch much, unless absolutely necessary. I do have two fingers or three on the clutch though in the event I do need to slip the clutch or stop.

The key is to understand WHY dragging the rear brake works. It works because without the brake the bike is free to lurch back and forth as driveline snatches at the low near idle speed of the engine. Driveline snatch is simply the bit of play in the power delivery from the engine through the clutch, transmission, and chain/shaft drive. That play is the clearance in the gears and play in the chain on chain drive bikes. No matter how many cylinders or how close the tolerances are, all engines will tend to want to lope a bit at or near idle (low rpm) under steady throttle (no acceleration) and that causes a constant on/off drive in the driveline which results in lurching action. Dragging the brake loads the driveline taking out the snatching action. It's like powerbraking with a car if one has ever done that. Taking out that snatching action makes the drive smooth when doing slow speed turns. Even when doing a turn from a stop or doing a tight 90 degree turn at an intersection.Agree. Riding around I'll step on the rear brake a little if I went into a uturn a bit too hot but I avoid the brake practicing to force more careful entry speeds and keep the bike balanced with the other controls. It's nice that my klx has very little chain slack. The thing I don't like about my brother's TW200 is it has noticably more chain slack, a puzzle since it has a shorter swing arm and less suspension travel. (The Tdub can easily do a uturn in less than the width of a parking space, 9', which is nice. The best I can do on the KLX is about 11'.)

[Biker Dash]

I do that a lot, and I will throw my agreement into the mix that it does work wonders. Als, I would recommend that people practice it. (anything you practice, you get better at I believe)

[RangerPJ]

Good advice Capt! I watched your U-Turn video as well. You should add the link to this post.

[DownByFive]

I drag the rear a good amount for the slow turns, but where I think I use it most is in traffic...makes sense since it's the same concept as a parking lot, but I also find it helpful to drag the brake to activate the rear brake light, since cager zombie automatic transmission drivers have no concept of engine braking and will drive up your butt if they don't see brake lights.

[ketsploder]

ok i admit that my experience riding is pretty much limited to the brc, but maybe that's why i have questions... either way... i noticed doing the figure 8 in a box, i didn't really need to drag the brake at all. in the slightly straight portion between the two u turns i did, but during the turn itself it was all feathering the clutch. or was it cause of the little korean 250 p.o.s?

[murphyshuman]

it is definitely easier to throw a small bike around than a larger one. But in either situation a little rear brake drag can give you some stability. Sometimes you need it, sometimes you don't, but it is something you should practice. I find I use some rear brake drag in the twisties if I get a little hot. It also works well for slow speed.

[MikeK77]

I find myself tapping on the rear brake in turns/uturns all the time.

[RonK]

I find myself tapping on the rear brake in turns/uturns all the time.

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I'm not sure that tapping is the best way. The idea is to keep a constant resistance on the drive train to eliminate the slack in the transmission of power from the engine to the tire. Tapping would be just adding another piece of variance of speed and jerking.

RonK

[MikeK77]

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I'm not sure that tapping is the best way. The idea is to keep a constant resistance on the drive train to eliminate the slack in the transmission of power from the engine to the tire. Tapping would be just adding another piece of variance of speed and jerking.

RonK

ok... apparently tapping wasn't the best word...i USE my rear brake....hows that?

I don't TAP it

[RonK]

ok... apparently tapping wasn't the best word...i USE my rear brake....hows that?

I don't TAP it

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At least you know some people note what you say/write, even if you are from Joisy. :D

RonK

[MikeK77]

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At least you know some people note what you say/write, even if you are from Joisy. :D

RonK

Let's make it clear.....

Im from SOUTH Jersey..

Joisy, belongs to the jacka$$es in North Jersey....

And the Jersey Shore Morons are nothing but New Yorkers that happen to live in a North Jersey shore town...and if I ever bumped into one of them, it would be the last thing they ever did, just for making a mockery of my state!!!

So in conclusion.....South Jersey and North Jersey are NOTHING alike!!!!

[RonK]

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Excuuuuusssee me.

RonK

[beginner]

Practice Uturns without touching brakes or clutch. That forces you to judge entry speed more carefully and make better use of throttle, steering and body weight. Outside the parking lot if things go wrong the brake is always there to use if needed.

[RonK]

Practice Uturns without touching brakes or clutch. That forces you to judge entry speed more carefully and make better use of throttle, steering and body weight. Outside the parking lot if things go wrong the brake is always there to use if needed.

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I disagree with that suggestion. Unless you are a beginner (pun intended) on a little bike and love the "challenge" of playing around in parking lots, then I would say it's better to use all the tools you have at hand (and foot) which means primarily learning to use the friction zone of a clutch and the drag resistance of the brake in order to be able to adapt readily to any normal riding size bike you may acquire during your riding life and be able to manuever in situations of irregular surface and/or interruptions in your concentration from traffic. Your balance will become more proficient with time on the bike.

This ability is important as the conditions in real life are so varied that you are never going to have ideal setups for playing around with trying to depend on perfect throttle (speed), steering (or radius needed for the turn), or exact balance point.

RonK

[CaptCrashIdaho]

Well said. Being ready and able to use all the tools in your toolbox is a vital skill.

[CaptCrashIdaho]

To clarify:

In some circles dragging the rear in low speed maneuvers is considered a sign of lack of skill. Likewise, using the friction zone is viewed as a lack of skill.

Being able to turn the bike effectively, quickly and safely in tight spot is a premium skill to have. Practicing without clutch and brake isn't a harmful thing unless it's done at the expense of being able to use ALL the tools (friction zone, brake, counterbalancing) to get the bike turned or turned around.

A simple mistake with throttle (stalling) while attempting to turn an 800lb bike in a parking lot can result in a snapped ankle or blown out back. Keep all your skills sharp. If you can do it with no friction zone or brake? Cool for you but you need to be able to use those skills if things go bad.

[beginner]

As mentioned before, outside the parking lot I use the rear brake in a Uturn if I started it going too fast for comfort. The clutch gets used in a uturn if I'm too slow to get it done with just the idle speed plus throttle.

Most of my slow speed clutch skill (such as it is) has come from slow ride practice where there is not enough momentum to stand the bike up with steering alone. Improving clutch skills is one of the good reasons to do slow ride practice.

Some of the police bikes approach 800 pounds and police riders can maneuver them as well and better than I can on my smaller bike with the only caveat being a larger turning radius because of a longer wheel base. If it takes more practice to maneuver an 800 pound bike as well as a 240 pounder then do more practice.

One of the (naive) reasons I hesitated to use a lot of brake and clutch at first in the parking lot was concern about excessive wear on parts. A couple of points about that. OEM brake pads (for my bike), less than $20 a pair from the local dealer. I replaced them for the first time in a few minutes with a screw driver after watching a how-to on youtube. An OEM clutch kit for my bike is $115 and it can also be replaced quickly (I'd need a $100 torque wrench to do it myself so may be my mechanic will get that job when it's finally needed). Search youtube for how-to videos on those two jobs to see what's involved for your bike or one similar. Brake pads and clutch last a long long time on most bikes then shouldn't cost much to replace. Moral of the story, feel free to use the brakes and clutch a lot for the sake of improving skills.

IMO 50-75% of wear on brake pads, clutch, and tires should be from practice.

[Gold5th]

Up here they teach it, call it slipping the clutch and you use the rear brake to control speed. In my MSF is was a required skill.

[Biker Dash]

In some circles dragging the rear in low speed maneuvers is considered a sign of lack of skill. Likewise, using the friction zone is viewed as a lack of skill.

I would like to say that those who do say that are probably trying to hide their own motorcycling inadicuacies. (ok, shameful as hell for a writer to spell like that, but **** it! I'm tired lol)

To me, it would seem that a rider who can and chooses to use all the tools and skills available to him as appropiate for whatever riding condition is the much better and more skillful rider. I myself wish to learn more, so I can become better.

[markk53]

To clarify:

In some circles dragging the rear in low speed maneuvers is considered a sign of lack of skill. Likewise, using the friction zone is viewed as a lack of skill.


Have those who say that to tell Geoff Aaron or Dougie Lampkin, top level trials riders, that they are lacking in skill. Then there are the pro MX riders who use the clutch friction zone to keep the bikes in the good power and burst out of turns.

But, Capt, I know you already know that.

[distantThunder]

I'll give it a shot. I've been taking my bike out and practicing low-speed maneuvers (like U-turns). Wasn't using the rear brake much ... but I'll play around with it and see how it works out.

In my case, using the friction zone is an absolute must. Can't avoid it. The reason is that the stock fuel injection on my cruiser is crummy at very low throttle settings. The engine response is very jerky. It makes it hard to control the bike in low-speed moves. So out of necessity I have to use a higher throttle setting and more friction control on the clutch. One day I gotta' get a proper EFI on that puppy :-)

dT

[Biker Dash]

What do you have for a bike?

[RonK]

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Distant,

As was also pointed out earlier, the brake is instumental in assisting to eliminate the manufactured slack built into (albeit very slightly) each of the drive line parts--from the engine to the back wheel. When each ten-thousandth of an inch is added to the next, and the next, etc., it becomes pretty jerky.

RonK

[distantThunder]

I've got a Yamaha Raider. Most guys riding that kinda cruiser use a Norton PCV. It's on my wish list. :-) Supposedly a lot of the low-fuel jitters in the engine clear up after the installation of the EFI. I'm interested in any other possble ways of fixing it.

dT

[RonK]

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Go fast!

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[V8Thrasher]

I used to drag the rear during slow tight maneuvers, but Ive gotten almost telepathic with my bike (like those choice of words? ;p ) and am able to without. But there is absolute no shame in using the rear brake.

[RonK]

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V8,
I would say, more probably, you are 'unified' with your bike. When it becomes an extension of your body is when magic happens.

RonK

[Jonny919]

I would use the rear brake on fast sweepers to tighten up the corner when I use to road race, but on the street, I pretty much never touch it.

If you plan your turn, have good posture, spot your exit and accelerate through the corner, you should be fine.

Staring at your front wheel can make you wobbly at slower speeds.

-Jonny

[ta_tai_kuai_le]

But bikes are unstable by nature when braking, I'm not sure how using a second brake will help.....LOL


Please don't let anyone at the Yamaha Champions Riding School hear you saying something like this . . .

[distantThunder]

I've taught myself to be a lot more sensitive to using the rear brake. I use it quite often when stopping, with most of the braking pressure on the front brake and a little on the rear. I do use it sometimes when cornering - as a trail braking skill. You just need to have a very light touch with the rear brake, that's all. Jamming on the brakes, front or rear, is usually the big mistake to avoid. I don't tell new riders to do trail braking ... the old maxim "slow going in, fast coming out" is still the best approach to handling curves.

The reason i use the rear brake is because i ride a big cruiser - a chopper. Unlike sports bikes, the front brake does not generate 90% of the stopping power on a large chopper. The geometry of the bike keeps a lot of weight on the rear tire. Even when your bike plunges forward (due to hard braking with the front brake), I bet the front brake generates no more than 70-80% of total braking power. Hence if I truly want to stop in the shortest distance possible, I've got to use both brakes. The important thing is not to lock up the rear wheel, so you just need to learn to have a light touch on the brake controls. It all comes with practice.

dT

[Gold5th]

Hence if I truly want to stop in the shortest distance possible, I've got to use both brakes. The important thing is not to lock up the rear wheel, so you just need to learn to have a light touch on the brake controls. It all comes with practice.

dT

That is true on all bikes. In my course they did a demonstration.
First locking just the rear and skidding to a halt - The instructors had a side contest as to whom could leave the longest blackie.
Second was rear only threashold braking
Third Front only at threashold braking
Fourth Front and rear at threashold

And eash stop got progressively shorter and shorter. Even at 30mph the difference between the 3rd and 4th stop on the bike they used was about a bike length shorter.

[Biker Dash]

I've taught myself to be a lot more sensitive to using the rear brake. I use it quite often when stopping, with most of the braking pressure on the front brake and a little on the rear. I do use it sometimes when cornering - as a trail braking skill. You just need to have a very light touch with the rear brake, that's all. Jamming on the brakes, front or rear, is usually the big mistake to avoid. I don't tell new riders to do trail braking ... the old maxim "slow going in, fast coming out" is still the best approach to handling curves.

The reason i use the rear brake is because i ride a big cruiser - a chopper. Unlike sports bikes, the front brake does not generate 90% of the stopping power on a large chopper. The geometry of the bike keeps a lot of weight on the rear tire. Even when your bike plunges forward (due to hard braking with the front brake), I bet the front brake generates no more than 70-80% of total braking power. Hence if I truly want to stop in the shortest distance possible, I've got to use both brakes. The important thing is not to lock up the rear wheel, so you just need to learn to have a light touch on the brake controls. It all comes with practice.

dT

Actually, depending on certain factors, the bikes you descrive can have the front brakes even more effective. Hell, the geometry of the Dieval is said to be the reason why it can outbreak the 1198. Has something to do with the way it doesnt squat as much, and also allows for more back break...

So I guess with the right breaks and yires, one of them choppers should do surprisingly well...

Sorry if I seem to ramble, I just woke uo and eed more coffee... :smiley_mornincoffee

[Jonny919]

On sport bikes, blip down shifts and front brake is about the max you can do in a straight line. Once the rear of the bike is off the ground, that's the fastest you can slow down. Leaned over is another story. There were several pros who had a rear brake added to the left handle bar so they could drag it with the thumb no matter which knee they were on. Pretty cool set up.

-Jonny

[Biker Dash]

There were several pros who had a rear brake added to the left handle bar so they could drag it with the thumb no matter which knee they were on. Pretty cool set up.

And there are pros who can drag the rear brake with their right foot just fine no matter which knee they are on... ijs

[CaptCrashIdaho]

Unless you have a physical disability (see Mick Doohan) I've not seen a lot of thumb brakes on Road Race bikes. Stunters LOVE them as do SuperMotard guys because they literally have their feet off the pegs and need to modulate the rear brake.

[Jonny919]

Unless you have a physical disability (see Mick Doohan) I've not seen a lot of thumb brakes on Road Race bikes. Stunters LOVE them as do SuperMotard guys because they literally have their feet off the pegs and need to modulate the rear brake.

Yeah, he was the Bad Daddy when I was knee dragin. I was never fast enough to need to touch my rear brake other than adjusting my line mid corner...no Nicky Hayden style backing it in for me!

I just remember the couple times I was caught with my arches on the pegs rather than on the balls of my feet, I felt out of control and dragged my toes...no idea how I'd get to the rear brake. My fear was, my toe would get drug down on brake and my back tire would pass me up, so I thought the thumb brake was crazy cool!

-Jonny

[distantThunder]

RonK: "Go fast!"

I overlooked that comment ... then I thought about it some more.
Words of brilliance. I'll give it a shot! :-)

distantThunder

[RonK]

RonK: "Go fast!"

I overlooked that comment ... then I thought about it some more.
Words of brilliance. I'll give it a shot! :-)

distantThunder
--
DT,

Tongue in cheek, don't 'cha know.

RonK

[distantThunder]

Yeah ... but actually it's a smart piece of advice.
What if a slow-speed U-turn ... wasn't so slow. :-)

dT

[RonK]

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DT,
I'm not sure where I've posted it, but as I have noted, when I do sharp u-turns, I do not go real slow. I find I can turn best at some speed of about 10-15 mph. I don't know exactly as it's a matter of 'feel' at what's right for my weight, on my bike, in that location, with that surface, with a certain load of luggage or empty.

I make my turns with a counterweighing over to my outside cheek on the outside edge of the seat. Sliding over doesn't work for me. Everybody needs to practice some different ways or combinations in order to find what works best for their body and riding style.

RonK

[distantThunder]

Ron ... yep yep yep.
I've actually been practicing U-turns going very slowly. Classic textbook slow-speed turn.

But your comments woke me up to the fact that I probably shouldn't be doing that. A U-turn at faster speeds - like you mentioned - is much more practical. I'm going to go out and run a few of these this next weekend.

cheers,
dT

[RonK]

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DT,
As has probably been mentioned a number of times in many threads, using the marking stripes in large, empty parking lots works pretty well. I use the back of a newer WalMart where there is little traffic.

The lines are about 18' apart and I try to keep my turns, one after another, opposite directions, to less than that. Most are at about 15', outside diameter. It's good to be able to turn in either direction, although on the actual roadway, most of your turns will be to the left.

By doing one right after another, you can reinforce your muscle and sight memory by the repetition and notice why some turns are not as good so you can correct poor moves.

RonK

[Bkellyusa]

Crash,

How often should you use the rear brakes in slow maneuvers? Is it on all low speed maneuvers like weaving back and forth, tight circles, figure 8's etc.?

[CaptCrashIdaho]

Crash,

How often should you use the rear brakes in slow maneuvers? Is it on all low speed maneuvers like weaving back and forth, tight circles, figure 8's etc.?

Best answer I can give is: Depends. I'm not sure on what! I think it's just a natural reaction if the bike feels sloppy.

Good question.

[Bkellyusa]

Crash,

I am studying up on this whole slow maneuvers stuff pretty hard these days so I am looking into this whole subject in great detail. I know using the rear brake seems to stabilize the bike but I am not sure I understand why but I am sure I would benefit from knowing how it works.

I got a training DVD today and they are recommending using the rear brake in all of the exercises they demonstrate which is probably less than six but that's a good start.

I've been riding a long, long time so you would think that I would have this stuff figured out cold but in truth a lot of it I don't know or fully understand, at least not well enough to put into words so lately I am reevaluating everything I do on a motorcycle.

[CaptCrashIdaho]

I'm not a 'big idea' guy. How and why aren't my kind of questions, if it works? Do it.

[RonK]

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BK,

A lot of it has to do with the fact that there is slack in the drive train and keeping tension on the whole process keeps the bike from surging forward and back--which will happen at slow speeds and is what can make slow manuevers more shaky. Keeping the rear brake on keeps pulling to the rear while the engine torque is pulling to the front.

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[Bkellyusa]

Crash,

I am definitely kind of an "idea guy". I like to know the underlying concept for what it happening. I believe that once you have that it is easy to learn to fine tune the technique and use and apply it in more and more applications.

[Bkellyusa]

RonK,

I've heard the idea that using the rear brake takes up all the slack and that makes sense to me but I just cant help but feel that there is more to this than just taking up slack.

One of my best friends rides a sport bike and he is endlessly tuning it and lightening it and tweaking the suspension and on and on and on. For this reason he just goes crazy about me riding my wife around on the back of my Harley. When I told him I preferred it he nearly fainted. I told him there are two very good reasons and one of them is that she is my lifelong companion and the other is even simpler. The additional weight takes out all of the play out in the suspension and makes everything more predictable. I can understand that but I haven't quite gotten my mind around how dragging the rear brakes in slow maneuvers actually helps stabilize the bike. I'll get there though. The way I am I'll chew on this problem endlessly until I get it sorted out in my mind.

In the meantime thanks for your thoughts on the matter.

[distantThunder]

BKelly - motorcycles are complicated animals. I've seen arguments amongst people about why things happen on a bike - and that's just when the motorcycle is moving at constant speeds (e.g. around turns). When you figure in the fact that the bike has major acceleration, high levels of torque, slack in the suspension and the fork response (damping) ... it gets pretty complicated.

I usually trust the judgment of riders who try things out. it generally works out best to just go out on the asphalt and actually try things.

applying rear brake does seem to "stabilize" the bike during turns. Part of the effect may be due to taking out some slack in the system. Part of the effect may be that when the front wheel is free, while the rear wheel has some drag, then the human brain is better able to control a motorcycle with that set-up. the bike seems to become more "controllable" to us ... because the way it feels makes more sense to our brains ... and so we just do better.

setting aside low-speed maneuvers ... which everybody agrees that they should practice regularly but in fact we often don't - the use of the rear brake is very important in turns at normal speeds. So called trail braking. It's just that the technique needs to be done very sensitively, and so we don't highlight this stuff to noobs because they need some time to get used to the controls on their bike. I'm not saying that YOU are a noob ... just saying that we don't talk about some things here for fear it gives new riders the wrong impression.

good luck,
dT

[Bkellyusa]

DT,

Well. thanks for the detailed response. I think I agree that at least part of it is sort of "mental'. How much so I couldn't say at this point but rest assured I am working on it.

My problem is that I started ridding back in the 1960's when no one taught you anything. No helmets, no gloves and no Kevlar jeans or body armor. It was truly the school of hard knocks. I've had seven bikes since those days and probably ridden close to 400,000. Oddly enough I am now just getting to the point where I am beginning to actually learn how to do it technically speaking. I don't know what started me down this learning path but this year I really got interested in riding technique. I am getting older now and I think I would like to ride out the rest of my riding career making as few mistakes as possible so that has helped motivate me to really polish up my riding skills. Maybe even learn some new ones. I've got "street smarts" a plenty and as it is at this point I am making it as difficult as possible for someone to run over. However since one can always improve and I think most accidents happen at under 40 miles an hour I am on a mission to learn as much as possible. I've have long since taken the MSF Courses but I could already ride when I took them (my best friends were the instructors) so it was easy to pass without learning much. Today I want to learn as much as possible.

[Bkellyusa]

DT,

For one reason or another trail braking has never seemed like a big deal to me. I raced go carts and sport cars when very young and some of my breaking technique might have carried over from that I don't know. However your point about being careful about who you are talking to and accidentally encouraging to drive beyond there limits is well taken. As it is for me too much of motorcycling is about high performance anyway. Most times it's just better to enjoy the ride.

[Olaman47]

Rear brake drag, as used in the Ride Like a Pro series is very effective, but I now own a bike with "proportioned" braking. Even if I just use rear braking, some front brake is applied by that system. The feel of it is simply not right. If I use only rear brake applications, both brakes are applied and it is not as stable as rear only braking. The technique is very effective but not all of us can benefit from it

[Bkellyusa]

Rear brake drag, as used in the Ride Like a Pro series is very effective, but I now own a bike with "proportioned" braking. Even if I just use rear braking, some front brake is applied by that system. The feel of it is simply not right. If I use only rear brake applications, both brakes are applied and it is not as stable as rear only braking. The technique is very effective but not all of us can benefit from it

What kind of bike is that?

[RonK]

What kind of bike is that?

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A Honda Goldwing for one.

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[Bkellyusa]

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A Honda Goldwing for one.

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My Harley his a 1988 so it has conventional brakes but I am sort of attracted to ABS. However the only way I would have a bike that has it is if you could shut it off when you don't want to use it. I haven't tried it yet but I have tested myself against others who have it and I could out-brake most of them on dry pavement. In the rain I think that the ABS has significant advantages. The day I tested myself against 8 other riders with ABS was against a group of guys all belonging to a club that supported a specific brand of motorcycle. They all believed that ABS was the most advanced braking system possible and they all raved about the advantages. So, on the first pass I was already feeling like I was out gunned and as a result I over-reached a bit, locked up my brakes and dumped my bike. Truly embarrassing. On the next pass I came in second and on every pass after that I was never worse then third. The guy who was number one was always number one but the others moved around a bit.

There was also a guy there on a Gold Wing and he sort of paralleled my results or better. I don't think he had ABS yet but he might have had a proportioned system on his bike . I forget. I know him very well and he is an incredibly good rider so he probably could have kept up with the rest of us even if all he could do to stop was drag his feet.

[LWRider]

...the use of the rear brake is very important in turns at normal speeds. So called trail braking. It's just that the technique needs to be done very sensitively...
dT

This almost bit me in the butt riding in north Georgia twisties a couple days ago. Entered double turns and between the first and the second I was scrubbing speed off for entering the second when I passed through a wetter part of the road. The back end started to slide out on me; but I released very gently and made it through. Speeded my pulse a bit and slowed my entry speeds down a bit for the following curves!

Cheers,

Mike