Preparing for first ride

[trixter]

I recently got my learners permit and plan on getting a bike soon. In preparation for this while driving I have been watching the riders in my area (hundreds each weekend, rural area so its a substantial percentage of traffic) to see what they do and try to figure out why they are doing that. I have also been looking at the road trying to determine how I would proceed were I on a motorcycle, and trying to raise my awareness of things like gravel, bumps and other things to watch out for. Things that in my truck are a non-issue, so I had been ignoring them.

I have a couple of things that I do not know quite what to do yet. Odds are this will be covered in the MSF course (I have to get a bike and will be unable to use theirs due to required control modifications to make it safe), but I am the type to not want to wait to get knowledge.

I may be over thinking this a bit, which right now should be fine. I am just trying to develop the mindset so that when I get onto a bike it is a little easier for me.

Man hole covers - ride over them or generally avoid? I have seen two types, the larger ones for sewer and telephone access and the smaller types that are only a few inches in diameter. Most appear to have only a minimal bump at the edge, but I thought I read somewhere they are slick (I would imagine more so when wet) which makes me think I should avoid them. If they are in my track I would have to swerve a bit to avoid them, in some cases by half the diameter of the manhole cover.

cracks in asphalt - most of these seem harmless ... from the truck I am driving, but I do not know if minor cracks should be avoided or not. I would think that they would not pose too much of a problem if going straight and the bike is roughly level. Larger cracks would certainly be something to generally avoid since they can pull the tire to the side a bit.

patches on cracks in the asphalt - this is the black tar (no rock) that is applied to seal cracks in asphalt. I read this is slick, is it only a problem when turning? It is even a problem?

newer asphalt patches - I have seen several large patches, and with newer asphalt I can imagine (but dont know) that the traction can change in the transition from old to new and back to old. Most of these patches are level with the rest of the road surface, or a slight somewhat rounded bump due to vehicles driving over the edges making them rounder. The biggest problem that I can see is if you are half on the edge of one where the road surface under your tire is uneven, obviously that should be avoided. I did not know if I should try to avoid the patch all together (unless doing so would require an unsafe swerve).

I do not see people actively moving around all the time in their lane, which makes me think most of this is a non-issue, at least while riding straight. I have yet to actually witness anyone ride over any of these obstacles though so I am unsure what most people do.

[Cie]

I have also been looking at the road trying to determine how I would proceed were I on a motorcycle, and trying to raise my awareness of things like gravel, bumps and other things to watch out for.
I call that putting on my "motorcycle eyes" ... good sensibility ...

Man hole covers - ride over them or generally avoid?
Both. Depends on traffic, depends on size, depends on road conditions, depends on how much above/below surface the edge sits.
Make sure folks following know what you're up to (flash brake lights if you let off throttle) ... narrow, even with road - go over ... wide, even with road - go over in dry weather ... either above or below - take it easy if you have to go over, or swerve around. I use one set of about 10 in a row as a personal slalom (cone weave) if no one is around - 25 mph speed limit

cracks in asphalt Just say no to crack(s) ... if they are across the road (perpendicular to your travel path), no worry unless they have a tall expansion joint, then slow down ... if they run with you (parallel to your travel path), stay away - they can cause your tire to track along and it's ucky getting them out - especially if they're deep. Worse than that is tar snakes. Avoid them when wet/hot/cold.

patches on cracks Yes... avoid anything that looks slick, feels slick, sounds slick - even painted road lines, turning or straight when wet or dusted w/ sand - you lose traction, you may lose.

newer asphalt patches Not so bad b/c asphalt has a "stick to it" - just watch the shoulders or uneven lengthwise sections - especially if the line runs along your travel lane (parallel) - you don't want your front tire to pull suddenly down to the right or left. Not a biggie going across.

Add R/R crossings, brick and raised stamped cross walks (wet or dry), cobblestone & brick roads, grated deck bridges (draw bridges), and those infernal signal light sensors that never pick up your bike, and you've got it.

Most is covered in the written portion of the MSF class, but when you go through some of the skill sets in class, you will get a sense of the speed and agility/ability of your bike around certain situations. Your personal skills and confidence will increase with every ride, and you'll build on the basics they taught you.

I really like the Ride Like a Pro video series for "seeing" about everything you can come upon. The guy is a pro - and if I can do (most) of it - you can, too! :)

Good luck, trixter!

[trixter]

Add R/R crossings, brick and raised stamped cross walks (wet or dry), cobblestone & brick roads, grated deck bridges (draw bridges), and those infernal signal light sensors that never pick up your bike, and you've got it.


That stuff was in the DMV manual, well not the traffic light but that is well discussed :) I guess cobblestone was not, but in my area there is little cobblestone, there are however poorly maintained dirt roads with ruts that would simulate cobblestone :)

I actually started noticing RR signs that are on the side of the road where before I ignored them to the point that I never realized why they illustrated the track at a 45 degree angle to the road. I also am looking at vehicles in front of me as they cross tracks to try to identify the rougher spots.


Most is covered in the written portion of the MSF class, but when you go through some of the skill sets in class, you will get a sense of the speed and agility/ability of your bike around certain situations. Your personal skills and confidence will increase with every ride, and you'll build on the basics they taught you.


I figured that the course would cover that material, first I have to get a bike and the modified controls so that I can use the front brake (have to move that to the left side, so a kliktronic klever2.com dual lever assembly is required). It would be nice if the US distributor of that would actually respond to my inquiries about it :/


I really like the Ride Like a Pro video series for "seeing" about everything you can come upon. The guy is a pro - and if I can do (most) of it - you can, too! :)


Thanks for the tip, I will look up that series and see if I can locate it somewhere.

[YamahaFan]

Before you ride (the first time) get to know the bike first. Mostly the controls: clutch, throttle, friction zone, signals, brakes, etc. They do cover this in the MSF course but that's with their bike(s) (not in your case obviously since you'd have to use yours). Every bikes are pretty much different. Just like cars. Some cars you can learn on the go but you don't wanna do that on a bike.

[Cie]

trixter,

I made a list of stuff I saw when driving - what and where ... like the best & worse R/R tracks ... challenged to myself to find and accomplish each task one at a time.

Maybe a goal sheet ... maybe a riding journal. You are mentally preparing yourself before you need to get out there - not like me - deer in the headlights! You'll do great.:)

On the R/Rs ... look for the lowest spot where the track crosses the asphalt or metal grate - even if you have to change lane position (within your lane) to cross at the do it - but finish that approach at a 45.

Funniest R/R crossing I did was when I had to get gas quick - following Hubby. I was so spazzed about this horribly curved/angled and chewed up intersection, I forgot I had to cross 3 tracks that were in worse condition at the top of the hill! Got to the station and was whining about the intersection and my Hubby was like, "geeze, I thought you'd be freaking about the R/R tracks." I hadn't even noticed them!:o

[Easy Rider 2]

I do not see people actively moving around all the time in their lane, which makes me think most of this is a non-issue, at least while riding straight.

In general, it is best to "ride through" anything that does not present a real, substantial danger. So I agree with the above analysis.

The thing to avoid is the "uneven lanes" that occurs mainly during road construction. You should NEVER try to "jump" up over an uneven seam in the road running the same direction as your travel. It can wrench the bars out of your grip and throw you down instantly. Going down across a seam like that is not quite as dangerous but that should be avoided too if possible.

That is the same kind of situation you might find yourself in if you run off the shoulder of the road......and the shoulder is lower than the pavement. If that happens, you need to find a spot where the two pieces of road are about the same height to get back on the road. If there are obstacles on the shoulder......like BIG potholes, then you might need to STOP before getting back on the road.

The only other thing that comes to mind as almost always being a hazzard are railroad tracks that cross the road at an angle. They can be slick when wet or have frost. Slow down and cross as close to a right angle as possible.

Most of the things you mention are not hazzards at all when riding straight or near to it.......usually.

[trixter]

Before you ride (the first time) get to know the bike first. Mostly the controls: clutch, throttle, friction zone, signals, brakes, etc. They do cover this in the MSF course but that's with their bike(s) (not in your case obviously since you'd have to use yours). Every bikes are pretty much different. Just like cars. Some cars you can learn on the go but you don't wanna do that on a bike.

I am going to have to modify the clutch and front brake a bit, so some of that will be required before I can even ride :) I am also modifying the throttle a bit (I have only one hand, so my right arm is going to have an adapter to control the throttle and allow my shoulders to be square against the handle bars). That too is going to require some additional experimentation over and above what anyone else would go through.

The only thing left is horn, lights and turn signals which are not difficult to master on most bikes before I get to the kill switch and starter :)

Good tip though, but in my case due to the extensive rewiring (not in a tim allen sense I hope!) involved its more required for me than most.

[trixter]

The only other thing that comes to mind as almost always being a hazzard are railroad tracks that cross the road at an angle. They can be slick when wet or have frost. Slow down and cross as close to a right angle as possible.


Crossing at a right angle (or at least a 45) is in the CA DMV handbook, being slick is not, but it is smooth steel so that is to be expected (at least from me). Reading is easy, remembering and doing it when I need to remains to be seen, which is why I am doing this exercise of thinking about how I would traverse specific terrain as I drive.

Hopefully I got tracks out of my system while on a 2 wheeled device. While living in Amsterdam I was riding a bicycle and the rear got stuck in the tram track (slightly below street level, and they are everywhere) and I kinda skidded/slid for a bit. Some how I managed to free myself without falling or stopping. About 5 minutes later for no reason what-so-ever, smooth road, no wind, no debris, fate got me back and pushed me over :)

[Cie]

Sounds like you have a great handle on all you will be facing - very prepared. Very impressed w/ all the things you have to do to make this work.

Have you thought through your steering/turning strategies?

[Dodsfall]

When going over unavoidable slick areas like metal, brick, leaves, gravel and so on, be careful to maintain speed and do not give sudden input to either the brakes or throttle. Coasting over or under slight throttle is the best approach. Slow down before entering a slick area and also pay attention to what is beyond the hazard. If traffic is slamming on the brakes in front of you, it's best to know that before entering a hazardous area.

A bike uses very little of the available traction moving at a steady speed in a straight line. You give up traction potential when braking, accelerating and especially when cornering. Keeping a healthy reserve of traction potential is key to keeping the bike up on two wheels. Giving yourself plenty of room on the road, keeping watch for hazards and thinking ahead will go a long ways toward riding safely.

[trixter]

Have you thought through your steering/turning strategies?

Yes, I will be able to push with my right arm, pulling may be a problem. One of the design characteristics that I am trying to incorporate is that my arm will just pop out of the socket I am making should I ever fall. I do not want this to be much work, more of a "it just happens" type thing. That way I do not get dragged by the bike and it does not twist my arm into unnatural positions.

Because of this a pull on the handlebars will separate my arm from the socket, generally not a good thing. However, most street riding as I understand it does not require me to pull the handlebar, and the amount that I would have to pull should be ok by pushing on the opposite side. Debris while using my left hand for something else may cause the front wheel to move a bit, I will just have to not hit debris while my left hand is not on the handlebars :) Dirt bike stuff might require me to pull the handlebars up, but I do not currently have any plans to do anything that challenging.

I had some new ideas last night about how to connect this to the bike to provide a bit more comfort and control.

Before someone suggests it, I generally hate traditional prosthetics. The hand for example has limited wrist movement, none in the directions you would use for motorcycle riding. There are grip issues with it, and there are issues with other things I do, such as typing - nearly impossible with the prosthetic to get any speed. I have seen the prosthetic made by a guy in Washington specifically for mountain bike riding which many have said works great for motorcycles, but after looking at it I think I would have some of the same complaints about it that I have about other prosthetics.

My socket will mount onto the handlebars and not be removed until I sell the bike. At least that is the current idea. This also means that, at least on a sport bike, my right hand and wrist will not get tired, something others have stated might be an issue ... Advantage me :D

[Cie]

Totally over my head on this ... next time I ride, I'm going to definitely think about each left or right movement (force) I use. No big fancy twisties or highway - just a typical ride to town - errands and a little bit of fun. Will report back my take, and it won't be the same as your experiences or needs - but may at least give you another level of understanding of what effort and movement is needed and why.

With your forward thinking, I'm sure you'll get to the right solutions.

[whothe2]

good post

[trixter]

Thanks that would be helpful.

My father used to ride, stopped about 40 years ago after an accident, my mom wont let him ride anymore. The only bit of advice he has given me regarding all this is that when you open the throttle a bit, inertia and all tends to throw you back slightly. Or more accurately the bike accelerates before that is transferred to you, but the effect is the same. For that reason he recommends that the throttle be moved to the left side. I am unsure how much of a problem it would be for me with the way that I am planning on doing this (only a live test would let me know for sure). Moving the throttle anymore is somewhat difficult (read costly because you have to replace stuff) given that the starter/kill switch is part of the throttle assembly on the bikes I am looking at. That would make it much more difficult to access the other controls that are on the left side normally.

I had some ideas last night and this morning that end up with a more advanced system for throttle control and would enable me to pull somewhat on the bike. Because I want to be disconnected on crash, there has to be some limit to how much I can pull before the system disconnects. I really do not want to be dragged by the bike or flop around twisting my arm (spiral fractures which can lead to compound fractures).

Knowing a bit more about the forces required would be helpful in knowing what should be built into the system.


With your forward thinking, I'm sure you'll get to the right solutions.

I would rather over think this before I get on a bike than under think it after.

[Cie]

For the acceleration part (where the bike moves and your body has to "catch up" initially), it may be as simple as having a good backrest to give your upper body more support - more support means more balance.

On the scary part of possibly going down and being "stuck" with the bike - have you thought about a break-away-kill-switch type thing - like the key you wear on a treadmill - but that is just for making you less vulnerable to always being attached? (Wow - let me go ahead and sell you the moon, too.)

There is an airbag jacket that was developed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo9Vlt5tGwY&feature=channel that used some kind of break-away trigger to initiate ...

[trixter]

For the acceleration part (where the bike moves and your body has to "catch up" initially), it may be as simple as having a good backrest to give your upper body more support - more support means more balance.


backrests look goofy on a sport bike or dirt bike :)

Thinking of a qlink XF200 first, its $2000 out the door brand new with a 2 year warranty, basically its a suzuki 200cc 15hp dual purpose bike, CA street legal even. Many have modded it slightly (jets, sprockets and exhaust) to make it get 90mpg and do 80mph (rider weight and size matters! 90mpg is only 55mph or below). This will be a test bike, the one that I crash while trying to learn. The most it would cost me to repair is $2000, if it is more than that I just get a new one and use the old for parts :)

The next will most likely be a ninja 250r, once I have learned to ride a little bit better.


On the scary part of possibly going down and being "stuck" with the bike - have you thought about a break-away-kill-switch type thing - like the key you wear on a treadmill - but that is just for making you less vulnerable to always being attached? (Wow - let me go ahead and sell you the moon, too.)


I am not terribly concerned about a kill switch for that, I plan on keeping both wheels on the ground at all times, at least for a considerable amount of time, a dirt bike on rough trails it may be unavoidable, I know my jeep has had less than 4 wheels down many times :) I also do not plan on doing anything too stupid. Being stuck would only really be an issue if the bike ends up on its side. Momentum can carry the bike forward, as it weighs more than I do it will then drag me. Given the weight and some of the other forces it can twist my arm or worse. So a break away system would be all that I need :)



There is an airbag jacket that was developed that used some kind of break-away trigger to initiate ...

That one is $2500, leathers extra and is not yet for sale, although it has been in development for 10 years. It also protects the least compared to the others. That system uses a computer to detect when a crash is unavoidable, the others that are for sale now use a ripcord. For a listing of jackets that are available now ($300-500 average price incl jacket or vest) see my thread "airbag jacket feature matrix (http://www.motorcycleforum.com/showthread.php?p=747132)" listing the different features of the different people who make them :)


I also have better videos than you posted (although I did also post that one) :D

[trixter]

Cie: the better way to do a quick disconnect seems to me to be something akin to an air compressor hose fitting. Then you just have to give it a tug and it releases. This is what it appears that "will craig" uses for his prosthetic hand release (designed for bikes and motorcycles). A string is tied to the release and run over to the other hand and attached somehow to the opposite wrist. When you fall off the string is pulled and the prosthesis is released. If the socket is a looser design then I do not have to worry about that, and I will be able to more easily work the kill switch if I ever need to. I have some issues with the conventional socket that he uses, which is why I am looking to do my own.

[Cie]

Kill switch would activate when you "disembark" to automatically shut the engine off to keep the bike from running over your head, chewing a body part up the the chain/sprocket or spokes, or dumping fuel and starting a fire ... none are very good.

Back of the sport bike seat can be modified (back raised) to act as a backrest. Check out drag bike seats and you'll see what I mean.

Reason I posted the jacket thing was for the system initiation. Doesn't matter to me if the video was posted a million times - just trying to be helpful.

Wish everyone was so lucky in planning to keep all wheels on the ground - history and statistics don't prove that.

Good luck.

[trixter]

Kill switch would activate when you "disembark" to automatically shut the engine off to keep the bike from running over your head, chewing a body part up the the chain/sprocket or spokes, or dumping fuel and starting a fire ... none are very good.

Ahh, thought you meant when I disembark horizontally. I do not think I will need that, and I have started fabricating version one of the socket with the intention to allow me to hold on by flexing the muscles in my arm and release by relaxing (gee like a normal person). Right now its cooling and I will go for a fit check in a few minutes.



Reason I posted the jacket thing was for the system initiation. Doesn't matter to me if the video was posted a million times - just trying to be helpful.

I didnt mean that as a dig



Wish everyone was so lucky in planning to keep all wheels on the ground - history and statistics don't prove that.

what is that quote about the "best laid plans"? :)

[Cie]

all to the good - I am pretty overwhelmed and impressed at what you are going thru to make this work. I've bailed on riding for much less.

When you do find the secret to avoiding the unavoidable - make sure you pm me. ;)

Some days I just don't know about me... gotta start the rides out w/ some serious "knee-mail" ...

[trixter]

well I have wanted to ride since I was little. I think it was about 1978 or so when I first saw someone riding a dirt bike in the hills just outside San Diego and I wanted to ride. As a child I had to obey my mothers wishes that no one in the family ride, after my fathers accident sometime around 1970 (just prior to my birth). Almost 20 years ago I looked into it again and could not find a suitable solution to modifying the controls, and dealers were not helpful - for liability reasons they would not even discuss it. A year ago I looked into bikes again, just to see what it would take to move the brake and did not see a suitable solution then. Only in the last month or so did I finally see the kliktronic klever2 that would enable me to work both the brake and clutch. The throttle was the easy part, and there are more options (worst case I can always go to a thumb lever, but I really hate those).

Now that I think I have figured out the controls, I have turned my attention to obstacles in the road, stuff to avoid, and observing others to try to learn from them as I drive down the road in the truck. Thus the original intent of this thread :)

This is the dual lever system set up for both brakes, I will use it on the left side for a clutch and front brake. I personally think it is WAY too expensive at $1900 plus master cylinder & reservoir (cable clutch on the ninja 250r so that part is easier). No clutch kill switch (have to hold clutch to start) and brake light has to be rigged up in addition since this does not have anything for that either. Its not an ideal solution, but it is at least 90% of the problem solved :)
http://www.klever2.com/multistradasmall2.jpg

[Cie]

OK - 1st off I don't know much about mechanicals - just learning mine and trying to learn more every day.

I was on a Screaming Eagle VROD at a local drag race and instead of having a toe/heel shifter, it used push button shifter. Dunno anything about how that all works. Just kinda freaked me out how much easier that was to work than the friction zone on a standard lever.

Can't imagine why that one thing (dual lever) would be so expensive... custom machining? not a demand part I guess.

[trixter]

I was on a Screaming Eagle VROD at a local drag race and instead of having a toe/heel shifter, it used push button shifter. Dunno anything about how that all works. Just kinda freaked me out how much easier that was to work than the friction zone on a standard lever.

That type of a mod is a common mod for some racers (too many accidents, their ankles are messed up) and for people who are missing a leg. About a half dozen or so companies make a system like that. Basically it has a motor that shifts the lever for them, its an add-on part that works with most bikes. The actual shifting lever is usually still there, the motor just manipulates it instead of their foot.


Can't imagine why that one thing (dual lever) would be so expensive... custom machining? not a demand part I guess.

They said that they make them to order, but on a CNC machine that would be trivial and not cost a whole lot. You said you were not mechanical so ... A CNC machine is a computer controlled machine that takes a flat block of metal and mills out the component automatically based on a model that was created on the computer. Most things that are milled and not forged are made this way now. I am also less than pleased with their US distributor who has yet to respond to my questions about pricing and availability. I am about to go to kliktronic direct and see about getting one since they actually responded to my questions about how it works and all, several times, finally telling me to talk to their US distributor when I wanted to buy one.

[Cie]

;) Thanks for that ... and funny, too.

I actually know what a CNC machine is! :)

O.K. grasp of older cars/trucks' systems, bikes are new to me (since 06?) - just been inside a garage a time or two. :o I don't understand most systems until I see the schematics and understand the in/out, see the workings. And I can't (won't?) wrench on anything but my bike - am slowly grasping the nuances of the other bikes.

Maybe the reason for the high price tag is not just the machining, but paying back the development of the part, the patent filings, etc. and making enough money on each one they sell to pay forward the next thing.:confused:

[trixter]

Or a lack of competition, the only other company that made something like this is PFM tech (as far as I can tell). I havent heard back from them on cost yet. I do find it somewhat interesting that PMF is on the Isle of Man and Kliktronic is UK. Are there more per capita amputee/congenital defects there or is it just that there are more motorcycle per capita ...

[mazda25]

this was very helpful as i am in the same boat, thanks!

[trixter]

mazda25: not sure what part was helpful, we kinda covered a lot of ground. If you are a new rider, then I hope you do well :)