Engine Ticking

[RideFastSaveGas]

My old '83 nighthawk makes a ticking noise when the engine is running, at idle it's very noticeable, it increases in speed as you give the engine gas, at high rpm's it can hardly be heard.

Would this be related to the valves? I remember reading there is some kind of adjustment that can be done but I can't recall what.

Thanks,

Matt

[Easy Rider 2]

Would this be related to the valves?

Yes. Might be normal; many bikes have noticeable valve noise.

Valve lash adjustment is NOT a task for novices.

Look for a shop that will give you an opinion/estimate.
On a ~25 year old bike, it is probably not worth worrying about unless it is REAL loud.

Could be rod bearings too. Have you changed the oil lately ??

[RideFastSaveGas]

Yes I changed the oil a week or so a go, level is good. I was considering rebuilding the engine over the winter so maybe than I will get to it, for now I will just ignore.

Thanks!

Matt

[4Raven]

I noticed a big difference when I change the oil at 2K miles instead of 3K or
4K...my bike isn't as old as yours...but I tend to hear every freakin' little noise...now I don't hear any noises!

[rexmitchell]

Ticking or pinging?

[Easy Rider 2]

Would this be related to the valves? I remember reading there is some kind of adjustment that can be done but I can't recall what.


I was considering rebuilding the engine over the winter so maybe than I will get to it, for now I will just ignore.


Something is wrong with this picture.

A rider who doesn't know what "adjusting the valves" means..........yet is considering "rebuilding the engine" ??? :confused:

Hint: Since the engine and transmission are in the same "case", a rebuild is a LOT bigger deal than you might think. You should check into getting the valves adjusted first. A complete rebuild is usually NOT a good idea just because of a little ticking valve noise.

[biometrics]

The 83 nighthawk has hydraulic valve lifters and there is no adjustment. The noise is probably the cam chain & tensioner. Also not a job for a novice with a wrench.

[Easy Rider 2]

The 83 nighthawk has hydraulic valve lifters and there is no adjustment. The noise is probably the cam chain & tensioner. Also not a job for a novice with a wrench.

Thanks for that reminder !! It could be a sticky lifter too.

At any rate......tearing down the engine for a little tick is probably overkill.

[Bcruisin]

Do yourself a favor have the valves adjusted if you cant afford that change oil and add a little marvel mystery oil this will also help in further diagnosing it till you can get the valves adjusted but an engine rebuild sounds drastic at this point besides a lot of novices can pull them apart but putting them back together and have them run and be reliable is another story. Of course i dont know your skill level so I am stating this just for the record

[Easy Rider 2]

Do yourself a favor have the valves adjusted

Just for the record, valves with hydralic lifters usually are NOT adjustable. :biggrin:

[95XT350pe]

Just for the record, valves with hydralic lifters usually are NOT adjustable. :biggrin:

Not true. Take a look at your closest small block chevy or small block ford. Tada, adjustable valves with hydraulic lifters, this of course is a pushrod motor, but even so. Hydraulic lifters are adjustable too, they alow zero clearance in the valvetrain, thus eliminating valvetrain slap and the need to check clearances is not as often.

[Easy Rider 2]

Not true.

OK, let me rephrase: Engines with hydralic lifters usually do not REQUIRE checking the valves for proper clearance......ever. For most, that is not on the list of recommended maintenance......... cars, trucks or motorcycles.

And you don't have to tell me about push-rod small blocks. I once removed and cleaned (rebuilt) all 16 lifters on a 283 chevy engine and set the rocker arm clearances by "feel".........only to find out later that the click I was trying to fix was caused by a broken spring in the fuel pump. :(

[95XT350pe]

Much better said. The best way to adjust the valves on a mouse is to do it with it running by ear, tighten the valve until it doesnt tap anymore, then back it off a 1/4 turn.

[markk53]

My old '83 nighthawk makes a ticking noise when the engine is running, at idle it's very noticeable, it increases in speed as you give the engine gas, at high rpm's it can hardly be heard.

Would this be related to the valves? I remember reading there is some kind of adjustment that can be done but I can't recall what.

Thanks,

Matt

Having both worked in a shop and riding both a 650 Nighthawk and owning a 700 Nighthawk S I have some valid comment here.

First there is no manual adjustment for valves in the Nighthawks, but they can have problems. In addition, they are hydraulic pivot points, not moving lifters, thus the term hydraulic adjusters. The rocker pivots on the adjuster, riding under the cam with a non-adjustable end running on the valve tip. That shows up on the Honda parts diagrams and is what I've actually seen.

If any dirt gets into an adjuster it can block the oil passage or the adjuster has gone bad internally it will cause a lifter to "collapse" making it tick since there now is clearance that shouldn't be there. The adjuster can not pump up to take care of clearance. The oil pressure that virtually instantly pumps up the adjuster can not get in the adjuster. This will make a tick that will increase with rpm. A broken spring can also be an issue too, but this is another possibility and most likely one.

The "repair" is to take out the lifters and clean them, bleed them, and reinstall them. Due to the design it takes a special tool to work them for bleeding them before reinstallation. I have no idea what the cost may be for the tool or for the work to be done though.

Using a mechanic's stethoscope you or a mechanic can likely figure out what valve is making the noise to isolate which lifter(s) or spring may have the problem. Then they can pull the valve cover and do the job. I've seen it done a few times when bikes with hydraulic adjusters have been either repaired or rebuilt. Believe it or not, if I remember right, back then in 86 Honda had them do the cleaning and bleeding using kerosene for easier flow. There was a process and the aforementioned special bleeder tool to do the work. The kerosene dissapates into the oil when the bike is run, evaporating off or blending into the hugely larger quantitiy of oil in the system without problems.

[victorg]

i have the same issue on a hondacb600 2000 hornet, ticks like crazy with the choke out, this dies down a bit once shes at running speed but is still audiable especially at lower speeds, drives me crazy, she used to purr. coming from the top left of the engine so im imagining valve clearances and only 1 or 2 of them? like a fluttery ticking.
So i imagine replace the shims? to get the correct clkearance? can anyone confirm this for me?
no affect of performance it seems.
im neither novice nor experienced but damn im desperate for confirmation that this is the problem before i open her up and fiddle about.

[salentino303]

Not sure if this is worth mentioning, but I started with a ticking sound to a loud hammering sound over time.

Since I am a noob, I thought that my valves were just loud but I later found that one of the cam caps had become loose, and subsequently, my cams and rockers became toast basically annihilating my cylinder head.

Open the valve cover and check that all the bolts and nuts in there are tight!

[victorg]

thanks salentino, engine noise seems to be a popular subject. as a starter for 10 then:
FOR A TICKING NOISE i need to:
1) open her up, check the nuts and bolts tighten if necessary.
2) check valve clearances with a feeler guage, replace shims to correct clearance specification on any that are off.
DO i need a new gasket as well?
3) close her back up according to service manaul?


we could lay this out as a usefull fault finder i guess, feel free to add to it if you think necessary

[salentino303]

If the gasket has been in place for a long time and it feels pretty rigid, yes time for a new one.

[victorg]

fuel tank removed, vale cover (enentually) removed, valve clearances checked and double checked (ad nauseum), ticking identified, camshaft removed, shim on the way,
GOd bless the haynes manual!

[markk53]

i have the same issue on a hondacb600 2000 hornet, ticks like crazy with the choke out, this dies down a bit once shes at running speed but is still audiable especially at lower speeds, drives me crazy, she used to purr. coming from the top left of the engine so im imagining valve clearances and only 1 or 2 of them? like a fluttery ticking.
So i imagine replace the shims? to get the correct clkearance? can anyone confirm this for me?
no affect of performance it seems.
im neither novice nor experienced but damn im desperate for confirmation that this is the problem before i open her up and fiddle about.

Be aware the CBR family of engines, like yours, also has been known to have cam chain tensioner failure. I learned this in my forrays in selling the Kawasaki tensioners I make. I've now gotten into doing them for VTRs which are same shape and similar to the CBR, but I've not sold one for a CBR yet. Not that I want to sell you one if it isn't needed, I want you to know how to diagnose the problem to an extent.

So here is the scam - you need to use a mechanic's stethoscope (available on ebay for around $10) or a long handle screw driver to listen to your engine in various areas to figure out what it ticking. simply put the tip of the stethoscope (or screwdriver with the handle against your ear) in around the tensioner then work your way along the cam (valve) cover listening where the tick is the loudest. If it is the tensioher the noise will be loudest there where the cam chain is slapping around. If it is in the valves you will actually be able to at least locate which cylinder and if it is exhaust or intake, I'm not sure if you can get it down to which valve on a 16 valve engine. I have two valves that are .001 out the top (which isn't worth pulling the cams to shim per my own judgement and two other very knowledgable trained mechanics), the point is I can tell which ones they are with the method above. It's easy with the mechanic's stethoscope and works.

I hope it's simply valves that need reshimmed. If it is the tensioner contact me I can help you at a fair price. It's about the bikes. Numerous times I've said it, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." , but if it is then find out what need be done and do it.

[markk53]

thanks salentino, engine noise seems to be a popular subject. as a starter for 10 then:
FOR A TICKING NOISE i need to:
1) open her up, check the nuts and bolts tighten if necessary.
2) check valve clearances with a feeler guage, replace shims to correct clearance specification on any that are off.
DO i need a new gasket as well?
3) close her back up according to service manaul?


we could lay this out as a usefull fault finder i guess, feel free to add to it if you think necessary

I should have read further...

If the gasket is the neoprene type, like I think it is, get some Hondabond to goop it up. They are reusable and the Hondabond is a non-hardening sealer. Be careful to make sure the spark plug O gaskets are in place too.

Get an inch/pound torque wrench to do the cam cap and have a manual to know the sequence to tighten them. I use a relatively inexpensive beam type torque wrench I bought years ago. Click wrenches are usually more expensive and not really any more accurate from what I've researched, but if you set them right, they're easier to use. Both are about +/-5%. Usually in two steps from 50% torque to 100% torque in the sequence is what I've done. The manual will help with checking the valves too. You can usually turn the engine over one time in the process. In one TDC position you will have one cylinder on compression, one on exhaust and one on intake, which means you can check both valves on one cylinder, the intake on one (exhaust stroke), and exhaust on the other (intake stroke), then a 360 turn of the crank will put the other cylinder in position for both valves and the others that are half done will be set to do the other valves. Kind of simple, amazing enough.

Now the tough part - you have to pull the cams to reshim the valves - so WRITE DOWN THE CLEARANCES YOU HAVE ON A DIAGRAM OF THE HEAD AS YOU DO THEM SO YOU KNOW THE INFORMATION TO CALCULATE CLEARANCES! You don't want to have to do it twice. Or if you know they need shimmed, take it to a shop and let them do it. Don't put the body work or tank back on, since you don't want to pay to have that done again, just put the cam cover on loosely and take the bike in.

[markk53]

I really should have read ALL the posts. I just don't seem to ever do so.

But my information is valid and I'll leave it for anyone who may encounter this again.

[Xmotorcycletech]

Honda also made a nighthawk twin, based on the CB 400t and it has ajustable valves.

[markk53]

Honda also made a nighthawk twin, based on the CB 400t and it has ajustable valves.

I guess I should have clarified it - all the Nighthawk 4 cylinders from 83 on with the sole exception of the 1983 750 which wasn't the new engine. After all, that was what the OP was talking about - the newer engine with the hydraulic adjusters.

If one wants to go off on a tangent, the 250 Nighthawk of later years was also adjustable.