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post #1 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 03:59 AM Thread Starter
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Why the hate on dirtbikes?

So, I've been watching some dirtbike vids on youtube. There seems to be a lot of aggression towards dirtbike riders. Why is that? I would like to get one someday so I can ride some trails up to some mountain lakes and stuff but, if this is how it is for you guys... Are these riders doing something wrong to deserve this treatment? I understand if someone doesn't want you on there property or if your bike is really loud and yr ripping things up. If that's the case they should just tell you to leave, not take a rake to yr face or a stick or a knife or push you off yr bike or try to run you over with their truck! Some of these people even try to grab the cam off of the riders helmet! Maybe someone can explain it to me. I have never been on a dirtbike. I have never had someone get in my face on my V Strom, not even close.
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post #2 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 08:19 AM
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It is probably because most of them see a no trespassing sign as a challenge. When it's a challenge, they don't care if they tear stuff up that doesn't belong to them. I have had people driving through my pasture hunting and just rip the fence down, I guarantee I won't call the cops on them, don't have that kind of time. There are places to ride and have a good time, just don't do it on my place without asking, you won't like the answer.
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post #3 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 10:18 AM
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I wonder if it has less to do with dirt bike, and more to do with trespassing. We've a dirt bike park up the highway. I launch my kayak out there. Never saw anyone get stabbed with a truck mounted rake knife.
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post #4 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 10:51 AM
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Strom, I really like dirt bikes but don't show up on my property unannounced on one. To me, a tool handle right through the front wheel at speed would equal what they are doing to my previously undisturbed woodland. The soil erosion alone, on some of my slopes, could prove very destructive even after the idiots are gone. I walk, do not drive, even on my own property.
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post #5 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 11:43 AM
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My grandmother house lays next to an area where people ride ATVs and dirtbikes illegally and they always race through her property that she always kept imacculate. They always tore everything up and would keep coming back, despite all the warning signs and verbal warnings. So, I'm sorry to say, they deserved to get pushed off their bikes. Now, if they had asked her for permission, and rode through with respect, she would have been more than welcome to let them, even making sure they had full bellies before they left.

You want to ride respectfully and not tear apart something that someone put alot of blood sweat and tears into thats great. But if you want to be disrespectful, then I'm sorry, you get what you sow.
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post #6 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 12:18 PM
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It is probably because most of them see a no trespassing sign as a challenge. When it's a challenge, they don't care if they tear stuff up that doesn't belong to them. I have had people driving through my pasture hunting and just rip the fence down, I guarantee I won't call the cops on them, don't have that kind of time. There are places to ride and have a good time, just don't do it on my place without asking, you won't like the answer.
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Strom, I really like dirt bikes but don't show up on my property unannounced on one. To me, a tool handle right through the front wheel at speed would equal what they are doing to my previously undisturbed woodland. The soil erosion alone, on some of my slopes, could prove very destructive even after the idiots are gone. I walk, do not drive, even on my own property.
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My grandmother house lays next to an area where people ride ATVs and dirtbikes illegally and they always race through her property that she always kept imacculate. They always tore everything up and would keep coming back, despite all the warning signs and verbal warnings. So, I'm sorry to say, they deserved to get pushed off their bikes. Now, if they had asked her for permission, and rode through with respect, she would have been more than welcome to let them, even making sure they had full bellies before they left.

You want to ride respectfully and not tear apart something that someone put alot of blood sweat and tears into thats great. But if you want to be disrespectful, then I'm sorry, you get what you sow.
These things would be my guess also. If someone rides on someone else's property without permission, then what hannens to them is their own fault.

Oldma47, I would use that tool handle upside their heads instead. No need to damage a perfectly innocent bike!
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post #7 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 01:24 PM
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Probably because riding unregistered (stolen?) dirt bikes in the city stunting in traffic and being a nuisance is the latest rage for the urban youth.
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post #8 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 01:52 PM
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These things would be my guess also. If someone rides on someone else's property without permission, then what hannens to them is their own fault.

Oldma47, I would use that tool handle upside their heads instead. No need to damage a perfectly innocent bike!
I see no reason to damage a person, at least not directly. If the machine will no longer work it will no longer be tearing up my place.
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post #9 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Ok. So trespassing is a big prob. I get that. Other than tracks.. is there nowhere to ride? Is most of the land private? Here in MT, there are thousands of miles of back roads that dirtbikes can ride on no prob. Maybe that's why i'm shocked to see this kind of aggression toward them.
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post #10 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 03:13 PM
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Can you cite an example of this aggression you're seeing, apart from useless YouTube comments of course. Everyone knows the sort of scummy things people say there where no one can judge them.
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post #11 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 03:15 PM
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Dirt bikes

Young kids going up and down a paved road in a rural area. No helmet, no operators licence, no insurance, no bike registration. Going back and forth as fast and as noisy as possible.
A problem for other folks on the road, but also scaring the crap out of the farm animals. A sheep runs into the fence and snaps its neck. You the farmer have to finish the job. The cows run right through a fence and you have to search for them for days. One of the horses bangs his head on the wall and gets a sinus infection. The farmer pays the bill.
So I walk out to the street and stop the kids and calmly tell them. The farm boss is going to start shooting at you, if you go down this road one more time.

Out on the trails there are hikers ( trampers for Steve ) bird watchers, horse riders and others. Your Honda Elsinore with expansion chamber, is going to scare the hell out of many horses, and possibly dump the rider on the ground. Who is responsible for the injuries?

City folk seem to have no respect for fences. Even the insurance adjuster assessing the damage caused by the kids Miata, will make no mention of the fence repair. Folks move to a rural area for many reasons. One of them is to leave the city crap behind. Noisy freaking motorcycles, brings it right back to them.

We should quietly ride our dirt bikes past any housing areas, and into the jungle, and be courteous to all we meet. Or we transport it there with our trucks.

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post #12 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 03:22 PM
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I personally do not want to be held liable for someone crashing their bike or ATV on my property. Because I have horses and no trespassing signs, I still have to have it posted that if someone is on my property without my permission and they get hurt, I am not responsible.

If people want to ride their dirt bikes irresponsibly and tear up property, they should save a little money and buy some land. Maybe that way they would understand that what is mine is not for them to use.
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post #13 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 03:35 PM
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Would it be equally okay to just have open season on these disrespectful idiots? Immediately you would scream about that. But it's okay for them to cause all kinds of mayhem? Let's get real people.

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post #14 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 03:45 PM
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I see no reason to damage a person, at least not directly. If the machine will no longer work it will no longer be tearing up my place.
Agree to disagree.
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post #15 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 04:14 PM
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Every square inch of land in the US is owned. Either a person, company or government owns it. Even so called public land or commons is owned, and subject to the rules of the owner and law of the land.

I understand it's frustrating to feel like there's nowhere to go to do X. I have to buy range time to shoot my guns. My backyard archery is tolerated by my neighbors since I've a shed sized backstop, but if someone didn't like it, I'd be buying range time for that, too. The guy down the street with the dragster in a trailer, he has to buy track time. There are no ranges or tracks in this city. We both have to drive out to the designated areas. That's life.

Some, not all, but some folks buy dirt bikes first. That's the wrong order of operations. The first thing to do is find a place to ride a dirt bike.

Asking goes a long way. We used to camp and shoot at a place owned by a distant relative of a friend. All we did was ask. Well, asked and treated the place right, but that goes with using a place.

There's also the internet. Riderplanetusa is a good start.
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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 04:30 PM
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Now, if the issue is dirt bikers being harassed when they're where they're supposed to be, that needs to be addressed with the police. There are folks out there who think they set the rules of any place they go to and damn you to hell if you do something thy don't like. Those folks are out of line and need to be set back in their place.
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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 05:42 PM
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Asphalt's for riding. Dirt's for plowing. Pretty simple, but there it is...


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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 06:01 PM
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Plowed field

At a cross country race in Salmon Arm years ago, the riders lined up on the edge of a freshly plowed field. The start signal is usually the ambulance siren.
At the signal you need to start your engine, and blast across the field, about 200 yards, then into the bush and up a steep hill / mountain. Up top there was fresh snow. And the race was on.

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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Ok so lack of respect has a lot to do with it. And am I to understand that some of you think that dirtbikes should only be ridden on a dirtbike track?...in the same sense that people that want to ride their sport bikes 100mph should be on a track? (which i agree with) I think it is safe to assume that certain events happened in the vids that I watched that contributed to the conflict. I was taking them more at face value. All I saw was a dirtbike rider "innocently" riding on a back road and some crazy person attacking them with whatever they could get their hands on.

Here is a scenario for you.
You are walking on a trail on public land. It is not a very busy trail. There are no sighs that say "no motorized vehicles". You can hear 2 or 3 dirt bikes ripping down the trail from a distance. As they approach they pull over, turn off their bikes and let you pass by and then proceed down the trail.

I'm not going to ask what you would do. I want to know what your thoughts would be toward the rider and how irritated the encounter made you if at all.

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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 07:06 PM
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I'd like the see a link to the video if you could.

The only dirt bike rider I've seen attacked on a trail was by an angry ram.
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 07:10 PM Thread Starter
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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 07:24 PM
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Ok so lack of respect has a lot to do with it. And am I to understand that some of you think that dirtbikes should only be ridden on a dirtbike track?...in the same sense that people that want to ride their sport bikes 100mph should be on a track? (which i agree with) I think it is safe to assume that certain events happened in the vids that I watched that contributed to the conflict. I was taking them more at face value. All I saw was a dirtbike rider "innocently" riding on a back road and some crazy person attacking them with whatever they could get their hands on.
A dirt bike rider tearing up the countryside is not innocently doing anything. He is guilty of thinking he owns other people's assets and is out to prove it just because I have not gone to the expense of posting signs all over my property. There is no such thing in North America as unowned land. Get it straight. Even a gravel road is owned by someone, maybe the state and maybe an individual. Dirt bikers are almost as disrespectful of personal property rights as a typical ATV driver, at least in my experience. Yes I have had both on my private driveway. Both seemed to think that because I did not post it as a private driveway they were OK just running back and forth on it. When I move onto that property to live I will be equipped to stop that sh!t for sure. A simple cable across the driveway will be my no trespassing sign and you can bet they won't like it when they decide to innocently go around because I didn't post it every 50 feet. Innocent my aching a$$.
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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 07:30 PM
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Loggers lease the land, they are doing a service and earning a living. They probably leave equipment and vehicles there and don't want people in there tearing things up and vandalizing their equipment. I'm sure there were signs warning the people to not trespass, but for sure the bikers camera failed to catch that. Besides, having people in the way of falling trees would be another obstacle to keep things from going safely and quickly.

Since the vids are in Germany, it's not really fair to blame the whole world for what goes on there either.
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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 07:44 PM
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That logger in the red shirt was asking for a punch in the face.

And the guy with the hammer was asking to f-ing die threatening someone with a deadly weapon like that.

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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 07:50 PM
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Land

They entire South Slope behind my farm was range land. My neighbour across the street leased it. At any time there would be about 100 cows up there, and maybe two bulls. There would also be a fair number of folks on horses.
The wide open spaces are there to ride your dirt bike, but we all have to realize there are others who use the land.

I have competed in many cross country races. The organizing clubs have to do a lot of work laying out the 25 mile loop trail. The courses are usually miles from anywhere, but you can always meet hunters, horse riders or loggers.
Usually loud pipes are a good way to upset almost everybody.

Most of BC is mountains, and there are not too many folks out there, other than well marked and traveled routes.

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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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A dirt bike rider tearing up the countryside is not innocently doing anything. He is guilty of thinking he owns other people's assets and is out to prove it just because I have not gone to the expense of posting signs all over my property. There is no such thing in North America as unowned land. Get it straight. Even a gravel road is owned by someone, maybe the state and maybe an individual. Dirt bikers are almost as disrespectful of personal property rights as a typical ATV driver, at least in my experience. Yes I have had both on my private driveway. Both seemed to think that because I did not post it as a private driveway they were OK just running back and forth on it. When I move onto that property to live I will be equipped to stop that sh!t for sure. A simple cable across the driveway will be my no trespassing sign and you can bet they won't like it when they decide to innocently go around because I didn't post it every 50 feet. Innocent my aching a$$.
#1. Like I have stated, I understand why people would get upset if they are trespassing onto their personal property.
#2 I have also stated that I understand that disrespecting the property is a problem too.(clearly that would include damaging the land)
#3 Perhaps "Oldman47" you could point out where I said "There is a such thing in as unowned land. I'm not sure where your coming from.

Here in MT there is a lot of GOVERNMENT OWNED LAND with public access for dirtbikes. And because of that, we don't have problems with them riding on anyone's PERSONALLY OWNED LAND. I'm not trying to be a jerk (I got it straight) just clearing up the confusion.

#4. I'm not taking any side here. I don't agree with the dirtbike rider or the forester. I was just asking why people hate dirtbike/riders so much because they are not even a small problem where I'm from.

I'm not trying to step on any tows here Oldman47. I am very unfamiliar with the problems dirtbikes cause. Tell ya what, you send me a problem dirtbiker, and I'll send you a few months of snow
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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 08:20 PM
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Yeah. Not enough info on those videos to know what's going on. Did the riders knowingly bypass a gate or postings? Have the loggers been dealing with trespassers, maybe those same guys, on their property over an extended time? Is it well known around those parts to not ride in that area? Has it been okay in the past, and the rules changed recently? Were the loggers even loggers? We don't know.

In both woodland videos though, the reaction of the non riders was wrong. Don't attack people when you're outnumbered. Don't attack people who aren't attacking you. Real life is not the internet. The consequences can be much graver.

But what's with the other guys bailing on their buddy? If your friend is being attacked, you help your friend. Sort out the right and wrong later.

That third video, I really don't know. Crazy dude with a maul? It looked like that was an alley that people drive on. Was it a private drive? We don't know.

But again, that was the wrong reaction. Threats of violence may be met with actual violence.

On that, once you lay hands on someone, or threaten them with an implement used as a weapon, you being in the right for whatever non violent issue lead up to the meeting may quickly cease to matter to the law.
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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 08:40 PM
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Strom, I don't know that there is a problem with dirt bikes and riders. Lots of people have and do ride dirt bikes. I've no animosity toward them. The issue seems to be with trespassers and vandals. Dirt bike, atv, horse, 4x4, mountain bike; any of those are going to run afoul of people if they're trespassing and tearing up stuff.
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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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I think yr prob right
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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 06:21 AM
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Heck, I have a neighbor that has a gravel road running through the middle of his property. Only 1.3 miles but it's his road. The public can use it but at any time he would be in his full rights to throw a couple gates up and stop the public access. Would he then just be hating all people or those that was doing 100mph down it that caused him to close it? People get strange ideas about what they have "the right" to do. If you personally don't own the land you are running around on you have ZERO rights to or on that land. Is that clear enough?

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post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 07:06 AM
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Crazy dude with the sledge hammer kept saying, "If you do that one more time!" and words to that effect but I couldn't hear what it was that he was upset about. I thought I heard him shouting something about "running up and down here." The paper sign earlier basically said "don't park here." I couldn't make out the first two scribbles.
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post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 07:27 AM
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I've seen lots of notes left on bikes parked in apartment complexes both in regular spots when people think "damn that guy taking up a premium space with just his stupid bike" and when they are parked in unusual places when people think "who does that guy think he is? Parking wherever he likes"

Most of the time the notes threaten the motorcycle will be pushed over if the owner continues to park in a space/not in a space.


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post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 11:15 AM
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The thing that stood out to me in the first to videos is how fast the guys with cameras left their riding companions behind.


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post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 03:12 PM
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Unfortunately we will forever have to deal with people that have no "Home Training"
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post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Critter View Post
The thing that stood out to me in the first to videos is how fast the guys with cameras left their riding companions behind.
I was torn between thinking poorly of them and thinking poorly of the guys who didn't get on their bikes and ride off as well.

At least they stopped and looked back and waited, though they should have helped. Once the bikes stopped and realized the workers didn't want them to simply leave, they should have taken off immediately.

Like the guy with the hammer. I kept thinking "keep messing around with this old guy and he is going to swing that thing at you or the bike. Push him down and take that damn thing from him, chuck it as far as you can and ride away"
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post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 05:22 PM
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I was thinking, what a bunch of wimps. Most guys I know would have pulled a gun out. That's the big difference in generations right or wrong. The workers were lucky this time. The next group going through might have a different idea. But then my generation general has more respect for land owners so the issue would never come up.

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post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 06:52 PM
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It's also probably the difference between Texas and most countries in Europe.
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post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015, 10:54 PM
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I will always think poorly of anyone that turns around and leaves a friend in danger, or in a effed up situation.

But likely these guys were just riding together and casual friends. Just because they were all on bikes doesn't mean that they had any great bond of brotherhood between them. (Well, from their actions, they clearly didn't.)
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post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 04:38 AM
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For me, door dings say it all. The AVERAGE American doesn't give a DAMN about anything that doesn't belong to THEM.

Double that if it's something nicer than what THEY have earned the money to purchase.

Ditto for the litter they simply dump out onto the grocery store or supercenter parking lot. Their entire fast-food meal containers, wrappers, ketsup packs, etc.

Which is why myself and others with mint, 25 year old cars all are forced to park out at the very end of the lot. You don't OWN a "survivor" by letting Joe American (and his or her bratty kids) slam his doors into it.

Common Sense: Today it's considered a superpower.

Last edited by wadenelson; 01-06-2015 at 04:42 AM.
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post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 06:49 AM
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"Average American" typically means anyone who is not of the exceptional character the person using the phrase believes themselves to be, which is usually just about everyone.

It's a pet peve of mine. Not every faux pas is an indication of what's wrong with America/kids/people/the world these days. The average American doesn't want his or her door edge dinged up any more than I want the side of mine dinged up. City folk respect fences just fine. We're actually huge fans of them. No dirt bikers tore up my yard in either the country between the cane fields or the city. I've actually seen the kids on their way down the street exit the sidewalk and walk in the street so as not to trample my grass. I live where the sidewalk ends.

The issue isn't average Americans. It's how much attention the crappy minority receives.

/soapbox
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