Oil and Lubrication Thread! - Motorcycle Forum
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post #1 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-12-2009, 12:28 AM Thread Starter
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Oil and Lubrication Thread!

As requested we are going to try out an Oil and Lubrications thread. Again this is not a thread for free advertising. Maybe someone can start us off with a good topic and we can go from there.


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post #2 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 07:53 PM
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How about just some general maintenance to start things off. After all, Riding Season is upon us.

There are guidelines to follow for putting the babies away for the Winter, but also when bringing them out of storage.

Battery Charged ?

If you didn't use a Battery Tender, be sure your battery has a full charge on it before hitting the starter button. A 1 Volt drop is enough to start causing starter damage.

Change the oil or not ?

Even though you should have stored the bike on fresh oil and filter, it is wise to warm the engine up sufficiently and change before riding. Even though the oil may "seem" OK, there is no way of knowing without Oil Analysis if the TBN of the oil is depleted. TBN is the ability of the oil to neutralize acidity.

Air and Check the Tires.

While the oil is draining, you can inspect the tires for wear or abnormal checking (dry rot), cupping and Proper Inflation. It seems thatif bike tires get to be a couple years old, they start to get hard which effects traction. I know my front tire is about 1.5 yrs old with over 25K on it and it is noticeable that it is getting hard. New Metzler coming soon...

Brake Fluid ?

Brake Fluid both in the brake system and if you have a hydraulic clutch should be bled 1 year and completely flushed the next. After 2 years of not bleeding, you can lose 40% of your braking efficiency and the fluid is usually well below it's Wet Boiling Point. Brake fluid is Hygroscopic. It draws moisture from the air and even right through the brake lines and cylinders. NEVER use or keep open brake fluid. Whatever you don't use, toss in with your dirty oil to recycle.

You cannot tell if brake fluid is contaminated just by looking at it. But, if you can see that it is cloudy or dirty, it is way past time to flush and it is unsafe to operate the vehicle. Do Not Drive until system is totally flushed.

Anti-Freeze for the Liquid Crowd.. 2 years on Standard Anti-Freeze. Extended life versions are available with life spans of 7 years and some may include stop leak right in them that is only activated when it hits the air at the leak

Also, the Liquid Crowd should check any hoses at this time..

Does your bike have any belts such as a timing belt(s)... good rule of thumb would be to at least check them and if they haven't been replaced in 2-3 years, you may want to do it. Better than being stranded and a tow bill.

Rear diff fluid for the Shaft Drives.

I really don't care what the manual says on this one... Most bike diffs only hold 7-12 ounces of fluid and can be changed in minutes... I use to change my shaft bikes every year.. It is downright cheap and even cheaper insurance.

Chains... Almost as hot a topic as oil is how to maintain the chain and sprockets. I see all kinds of chemicals that people want to use to clean their chains... Simple green, Kerosene, WD-40...

A: I only use WD-40 for starting fluid since I found out how hazardous it is and won't even get it on my skin. Simple Green.. Does anyone know for sure (something in writing from the mfg.) that it will not effect the O-Rings in the chain ? Kerosene... sure and it can go in the drain pan with the oil. I think the best and inexpenve way would be Diesel fuel as it will degrease anything and also has lubricity for the O-Rings. After that... Chain Lube made for chains... Most go on in liquid form and turn waxy so you don't get "Sling" on that nice white T Shirt or all over those expensive Leathers.

I am sure I missed something here..
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post #3 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-13-2009, 09:29 PM
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i have a two stroke with a wet clutch and the manual saya to use 10-40 oil for the crank case not for pre mix but for the gears. all they say is oil what so do i use motor oil, 4 stroke motorcycle oil? could some one help me
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post #4 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montanasuzuki View Post
i have a two stroke with a wet clutch and the manual saya to use 10-40 oil for the crank case not for pre mix but for the gears. all they say is oil what so do i use motor oil, 4 stroke motorcycle oil? could some one help me
Use a Motorcycle Specific oil with a JASO Rating of MA, better yet, MA 2, but never MB

These are clutch performance ratings. Regardless of what anyone says, the IS a difference between auto/diesel oils and M/C Specific.. Don't cheap out, buy the right product.

If you want to use a Top of The Line oil, Pick one of the Top 3 Finishers in the following link and you will have no problems. At least not any due to the oil.. LOL

http://www.bestoil4you.com/files/g2156MCoilStudy.pdf


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post #5 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 12:45 PM
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I got tired of paying $13 a quart for 'motorcycle oil' and dumped in some Mobil 1 15W-50. The bike shifts better on this stuff than on anything else I've tried, and it hasn't burned a drop in 1000 miles. I was worried about the clutch at first, but it hasn't been phased at all.
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post #6 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 01:51 PM
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What's the take on using Diesel motor oil? Specifically, I've been using RotellaT Syn 5W-40 on my SV650 since I got it at 6500mi. It's currently at 11K, so I've only changed oil like 2-3times.

Anyway, from what I've read, these are the service specification ratings on Rotella T Synthetic
CG-4,CH-4,CI-4,CJ-4/SM (CI-4 plus)
Is any of the ratings necessarily bad or good for the bike?

I live in CA valley, so the temperatures barely get to "freezing" too often.

2005 Suzuki SV650n
Ride Fun, Ride Free, Ride Safe.
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post #7 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-14-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbdallas View Post
I got tired of paying $13 a quart for 'motorcycle oil' and dumped in some Mobil 1 15W-50. The bike shifts better on this stuff than on anything else I've tried, and it hasn't burned a drop in 1000 miles. I was worried about the clutch at first, but it hasn't been phased at all.
$13.00 is probably the going rate at a Dealer, have seen it as high as $17.00 and yes, at that price, they are raping you...

100% Synthetic AMSOIL from Rex or I is well below that depending on amount ordered, it can be substantial. A case of 12 is the best way to go. But even with just buying 4 qts and a filter, your cost per mile is compareable to what you have now due to the extended drain interval.

Quote:
Originally Posted by super32 View Post
What's the take on using Diesel motor oil? Specifically, I've been using RotellaT Syn 5W-40 on my SV650 since I got it at 6500mi. It's currently at 11K, so I've only changed oil like 2-3times.

Anyway, from what I've read, these are the service specification ratings on Rotella T Synthetic
CG-4,CH-4,CI-4,CJ-4/SM (CI-4 plus)
Is any of the ratings necessarily bad or good for the bike?

I live in CA valley, so the temperatures barely get to "freezing" too often.
Rotella does claim to have an MA Rating now. But does not have all the necessary additives that are in other M/C oils such as Anti-Rust and corrossion Inhibitors, and in the case of AMSOIL, Specific Clutch Performance additives to give them a JASO MA-2, which is the highest clutch rating available and Special Anti-Wear additives for your transmission.

We take it like this... If an auto oil or diesel oil were the way to go, why would we want to mfg a Specific oil. Many M/C magazines have checked out Auto/Diesel oils compared to M/C oils and the one's that have done any homework or "Actual" testing have all said that yes, there is a difference.

Check out the link I have in the above post... Pick one of the Top 3 finishers... Don't try to cheap out....

As far as Filters... AMSOIL is unbeatable at 15 Micron, WIX is my second choice, Pure One is 3rd and Mobil-1 would bring up the 4th.

Doc
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post #8 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 09:07 AM
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I use 10w 40 valvoline 4 stroke M/C oil.

I heard some good things about rotella 15/40 . also heard castrol 20w50 was good as well. both was said to lower the noise coming from the engine like cam chain noise.

Don't use synthetic with friction modifiers / ptfe .
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post #9 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Doc View Post
Use a Motorcycle Specific oil with a JASO Rating of MA, better yet, MA 2, but never MB

These are clutch performance ratings. Regardless of what anyone says, the IS a difference between auto/diesel oils and M/C Specific.. Don't cheap out, buy the right product.

If you want to use a Top of The Line oil, Pick one of the Top 3 Finishers in the following link and you will have no problems. At least not any due to the oil.. LOL

http://www.bestoil4you.com/files/g2156MCoilStudy.pdf


Doc
That was incredibly informative. Thanks.
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post #10 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flash1259 View Post
I use 10w 40 valvoline 4 stroke M/C oil.

I heard some good things about rotella 15/40 . also heard castrol 20w50 was good as well. both was said to lower the noise coming from the engine like cam chain noise.

Don't use synthetic with friction modifiers / ptfe .
For a Blanket Statement, don't use any oil with friction modifiers.

Oils do not come with Teflon in the (ptfe).. Those are aftermarket additives and should never be used.. If you think you need an additive, you just need a better oil.

The other oils you mentioned.... They are Diesel and automotive oils...

Regardless of Brand, Petroleum or Synthetic, I always recommend the use of a MotorCycle Specific oil (there IS a difference) with aJASO MA Rating, better yet, a JASO MA 2, but never an MB.

Doc
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post #11 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-16-2009, 11:17 PM
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thank you it seems that the guy i bought it from owns a motorcycle shop and he ran the Bel Ray gear saver oil in it and i think i might stick with it its only 8 bucks a bottle and i use bel Ray oil for the two stroke oil and every other oil in the bike thanks for the chart on the oils it is very interesting thanks
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post #12 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-20-2009, 11:51 PM
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have any of you guys used the lucas brand part synthetic two stroke oil it is cheaper than this bel ray and the bel ray is not even synthetic i want to give it a ry but i wanted some input on it first
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post #13 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 12:39 PM
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I was unable to come up with any kind of test Data for Lucas but if it is the same quality as the rest of their stuff, I'd stay away from it.

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post #14 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 12:49 PM
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Question:

I have ~52,000 miles on my Hawk. Will changing to synthetic AMS oil have any negative effects? The reason I say this is that I have heard, from more than one qualified person, that doing this to a car can cause leaks because it will end up cleaning up "gunk" and deposits that have plugged previous holes in the system.

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post #15 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daw840 View Post
Question:

I have ~52,000 miles on my Hawk. Will changing to synthetic AMS oil have any negative effects? The reason I say this is that I have heard, from more than one qualified person, that doing this to a car can cause leaks because it will end up cleaning up "gunk" and deposits that have plugged previous holes in the system.
good question, I also have heard that, wonder if its the truth, any Mechanics on board?
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post #16 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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It will definitely clean up the old gunk, as for making your bike leak, Ill let Oil Doc take that one.


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post #17 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-21-2009, 01:39 PM
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Any synthetic oil has the potential to 'cause' a leak, but what you have to remember is that the leak already existed before you switched. Syns just have a way of bringing them to light by cleaning up the gunk around the seal that's been previously plugging the leak. In some cases, simply switching to high-detergent conventional can do it as well. So, if you have a lot of sludge and some possibly compromised gaskets, syn can and likely will start the dreaded drip.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbdallas View Post
Any synthetic oil has the potential to 'cause' a leak, but what you have to remember is that the leak already existed before you switched. Syns just have a way of bringing them to light by cleaning up the gunk around the seal that's been previously plugging the leak. In some cases, simply switching to high-detergent conventional can do it as well. So, if you have a lot of sludge and some possibly compromised gaskets, syn can and likely will start the dreaded drip.
If the gaskets are that bad you may need to replace them anyway though.


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post #19 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 09:17 PM
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i use the lucas oil stabilizer in many of our trucks and wouldnt run them with out it its the just the two stroke oil that i have not heard any thing about
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post #20 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 09:52 PM
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Just make sure you don't use Lucas in anything that doesn't need it.. Example:.. Anything that is mechanically sound.. It is an oil thickener..

If you need an additive in mechanically sound equipment, you just need a better lubricant.

I have put Synthetic, specifically AMSOIL, in engines with over 200,000 miles on them. What I have seen are that many times, the one's with the problems may get a little worse if it is a seal and then because of the additives will soften the seal allowing it to work again.

One such vehicle I had was a Chevy S-10 with a 4.3, known for rear intake seal leaks... over 200K, switched to 5W-30... leak got a little worse and then went from a puddle on my painted floor to only about 5 or 6 drops...

I hardly think twice any more... I use AMSOIL Engine flush (Not On Bikes) and change.

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post #21 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 12:36 AM
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Can either you or rex PM me some info on getting a case of oil for my bike?

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post #22 of 366 (permalink) Old 04-28-2009, 02:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Can either you or rex PM me some info on getting a case of oil for my bike?
Got it!


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post #23 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-07-2009, 11:30 PM
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thanks for that info i would use the amsoil but i cannot find a dealer near me in great falls montana do you know of any doc?
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post #24 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-08-2009, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
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thanks for that info i would use the amsoil but i cannot find a dealer near me in great falls montana do you know of any doc?
Not a problem... The Big Brown Truck runs just about everywhere... Few Dealers will buy $9000.00 for Free Freight... LOL... In other words, just about everyone pays freight, even Dealers..

Rex Mitchell or myself can take care of you... If you can send me an email, AMSOIL@bestoil4you.com with what you are looking for, I can put some prices together and then you can contact us for your order.

Also, if you know of anyone that would like to be a Dealer, Retailer or Commercial Account, Rex or I can take care of that as well.. That will help take care of a supply issue.

Thanks, Doc
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post #25 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 02:45 PM
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I have an URGENT question. My bike is about 3/4 quart low and I need to top it off, can I put 20w50 MC oil into the bike to top it off? It has 10w40 in it right now...Or will this do bad things to the oil?

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Quote:
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I have an URGENT question. My bike is about 3/4 quart low and I need to top it off, can I put 20w50 MC oil into the bike to top it off? It has 10w40 in it right now...Or will this do bad things to the oil?
In an emergency situation, it is fine to blend oils. It is highly recommended to change ASAP after that as the additive packs may not be totally compatible and may shorten the usable life of the oil..


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post #27 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 02:59 PM
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Well, appparently the parts store has a synthetic 10w40 racing oil. Would that be better or worse than the conventional 20w50?

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post #28 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 03:14 PM
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Well, appparently the parts store has a synthetic 10w40 racing oil. Would that be better or worse than the conventional 20w50?
If that 10W-40 is NOT a Motorcycle Specific oil... Use the 20W-50

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post #29 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 03:15 PM
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Call me if you need a faster answer to anything...

Toll Free 1-877-356-6099

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post #30 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oil Doc View Post
If that 10W-40 is NOT a Motorcycle Specific oil... Use the 20W-50

Doc
The 10w40 is a motorcycle specific oil, but it is synthetic whereas the oil in the bike right now is a conventional.

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post #31 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 04:28 PM
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Then put the 20W-50 in... No reason to waste the money on a synthetic when you are going to have to change it out due to mixing

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post #32 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-10-2009, 09:36 PM
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Thanks for the advice. It started to rain, so I just left the bike where it is and hitched a ride home with a friend. I will get some regular 10w40 tomorrow when the MC shop opens.

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post #33 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 01:29 PM
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Fork oil recommendations?

Hello, I have a '90 zx-10 and the manual just calls for SAE10w20. Can anyone give me some good brands to use? And also any brands that I should avoid?

Also, I tend to ride faster, not always on smooth roads, and often with a passenger, is there anything that I can change from the stock set-up (oil viscosity, amount used, etc) to firm up the front end? Have been known to bottom out when braking on a bumpy road.

Thanks all

-c
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post #34 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_r View Post
Hello, I have a '90 zx-10 and the manual just calls for SAE10w20. Can anyone give me some good brands to use? And also any brands that I should avoid?

Also, I tend to ride faster, not always on smooth roads, and often with a passenger, is there anything that I can change from the stock set-up (oil viscosity, amount used, etc) to firm up the front end? Have been known to bottom out when braking on a bumpy road.

Thanks all

-c
You most likely meant 10W-40 or 20W-40... The only 20 weights I know from back then were straight weights, but my brain is old and crusty.

Your manual should also give you an API Spec... but maybe not being 1990 as all oils were SF or less thus meeting the clutch ratings and had plenty of ZDDP to protect the lifters and cam.

As long as you find an oil with an API SG and/or SH (SG/SH) Rating you will be fine...

DO NOT use an automotive oil.. (See below) New auto oils will carry a SM/SL Rating and that DOES NOT automatically supersede an SG/SH oil BUT, they can carry a Dual Rating.... Look for that SG/SH, Buy a Motorcycle Specific.

I ALWAYS MAINTAIN:

Regardless of Brand, Synthetic or Petroleum, I always recommend a Motorcycle Specific oil with a JASO Rating of MA, better yet, MA 2, but Never MB.

Reasonable results can be had with a good petroleum oil and a good filter.. Superior results can be had using a Premium Synthetic and a Premium Filter.

If anyone tells you that there is No difference between an Auto/Diesel oil and a Motorcycle Specific oil, they have been greatly misinformed.


Doc
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post #35 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 04:10 PM
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I will be changing my oil probably this wednesday, yea i have only put on 19 miiles on it, since i have owned it, Yes i work alot, the previous owner said i should change it also.

I enjoy nice, and fast , women and vehicles, LOL
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post #36 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 04:46 PM
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Actually I was talking about fork oil! But thanks for all the other information
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post #37 of 366 (permalink) Old 05-17-2009, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christian_r View Post
Actually I was talking about fork oil! But thanks for all the other information

Ahhh.. 5 wgt and 10 wgt are the most common.... with 10 wgt being the most common.

Most common recommendation is to change every 2 years....

Doc
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post #38 of 366 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 08:38 AM
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I ordered a stainless oil filter from the site oemcycleparts dot com. They sent the wrong part then tried to convince me on the phone to use it, that even the "manufacturer" said it was the right part. The filter was half the length which would have allowed the oil to bypass the filter. I even took a picture of their filter side by side with the real deal and sent it to them. Needless to say I had to pay for the part, pay for shipping, pay for shipping back to them and then have to pay a 15% re-stocking fee. I tried to save a few bucks and could have ruined my bike. Buyers BEWARE !
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post #39 of 366 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 02:00 PM
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Are you talking about something like a Scott's or similar cleanable racing filter ?

I don't recommend those as they do not have a very good Micron Rating or Capture Efficiency.

Doc

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post #40 of 366 (permalink) Old 06-28-2009, 10:54 PM
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Multiple sudden leaks?

I think my poor old 82 Honda cm 250 c is headed for massive failure :0( it semi suddenly started leaking a very slow drip of oil from the gasket at the top AND the middle of the engine! My only thought is that there might be excessively high oil pressure? I checked the valve cover gasket and it seems in really good shape and Im not sure how its leaking anything through there. Cant get to the middle one so easy without pulling the engine.

Any ideas?
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